Mosque Near Ground Zero, what do you guys think about it? Rating Options

Even asking the question "Should Muslims build a mosque near Ground Zero?" is somewhat unfair because it assumes that Muslims should ask for special permission to exercise the rights everyone else enjoys without question.

I support the project in spirit because I don't hold all Muslims responsible for what a few did. Why should they all be punished? I'm not a Christian, but if I were, I certainly wouldn't want to be held responsible for something the Westboro Baptist Church did. (Westboro are nutty Christian extremists, if you're not familiar with them.)

I do have some concerns -- that the mosque will be a target for vandalism, burglaries, angry protesters, or worse. If Americans don't already realize it, they're about to learn that terrorists - people who are willing to terrorize others to get their way - aren't just overseas, and they aren't just Muslims. They are people of every color and creed, living in every city in the world. They are the people who are willing to hurt, destroy, or even kill to keep a mosque from being constructed

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Wow, for once i agree with Nazia !!! not such a good idea. just think if it were a historic religious location that was destroyed, now they want to build a casino (since you all know that's where a lot of worship goes on), how would you respond? Ok, not so drastic a statue or a wall of names to memorialize those who died.

on the other hand you never know it may just be a test of Iman from Allah, and it will be a hardship to worship there, now how many will knowingly put themselves in harms way to worship there lord, when you can easily go to your regular Mosque and do it with ease

LOL how ironic... don't hate me mureed but it seems you finally agree wit me on something and I was actually coming on this thread with the intent of changing the opinion I had set forth! well not entirely. I still say I would not pray at that mosque simply because I would never feel safe there. I feel like it's kind of looking for trouble I guess... but when I wrote my responses the first time it was before I heard any news of trying to get it blocked

I was on the road for awhile this summer. During one month long stretch I was traveling with my mother for one portion. When we crossed the border from Canada into Maine we stopped in a little visitors center in Lubec. My mother is Jewish while I am a Muslim I will point out. My mother and I began visiting with the really old couple who owned this place, no body else was there. I brought up how we were heading back to NYC and the old lady said: "did you guys hear, they are trying to build a mosque there? Near the ground zero?" My mother's eyes lit up... "WHAT?!?" She exclaimed. It wasn't that she said 'what'... it was the way she sad it... as though she were absolutely disgusted by even the thought... like she was offended by the very thought.... it was like she and that old lady almost forgot I was in the room or something... I just kept quiet... I didn't see the point... she will probably never know how that tiny moment really hurt me and I felt miles away from her at that moment. LIke I was a stranger to her. A stranger in the country. at that moment I felt very different about this issue.

Yes I think it was ballsy... yes I think it was too soon... yes I'd be afraid to pray there... but yes we have absolutely just as much right as any body else to build a mosque. The backlash this is receiving is ridiculous. I was beginning to feel like Islamophobia was over... this is like the McCarthyism I always read about in history books.

Here's a nice video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0...layer_embedded#

This is so funny my first response was in ignorance which i usually don't do. So now I'm here to change my stance. I think it's a great idea. over the weekend i actually looked into it and had a few people explain what Cordoba actually was. i think i am even going to visit once its done. As for Mr. Olbermann wow I've never watched him before but will from now on.


This post has been edited by mureed: Aug 24 2010, 09:37 PM

Hi readers

I was surprised to find that not all Muslims support the construction of the controversial mosque near Ground Zero. Here are two articles published by the Muslim Canadian Congress. I am not sure if other Muslims consider this organization as one of their owns, because sometimes the Muslims of this organization have a critical view of themselves. Here are two short excerpts:

(1)
New York currently boasts many mosques so it’s not as if there is pressing need to find space for worshippers. The fact we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as “Fitna,” meaning “mischief-making” that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.

(2)
When we try to understand the reasoning behind building a mosque at the epicentre of the worst-ever attack on the U.S., we wonder why its proponents don’t build a monument to those who died in the attack?

The Koran commands Muslims to, “Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book” — i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of “fitna”

So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the “Cordoba Initiative” and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case? Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?

There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

It’s a repugnant thought that $100 million would be brought into the United States rather than be directed at dying and needy Muslims in Darfur or Pakistan.

Let’s not forget that a mosque is an exclusive place of worship for Muslims and not an inviting community centre. Most Americans are wary of mosques due to the hard core rhetoric that is used in pulpits. And rightly so. As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.

The Koran implores Muslims to speak the truth, even if it hurts the one who utters the truth. Today we speak the truth, knowing very well Muslims have forgotten this crucial injunction from Allah.

If this mosque does get built, it will forever be a lightning rod for those who have little room for Muslims or Islam in the U.S. We simply cannot understand why on Earth the traditional leadership of America’s Muslims would not realize their folly and back out in an act of goodwill.

After reading the answer possibilities (Good Idea, Bad Idea) I could not longer vote.

I am not one of the many people that say they have every right but I don't think they should or some such thing. Rather, I just don't think that it is a good idea to build any religious buildings.

However, I do think and support the "Ground Zero Mosque". I have ardently defended it against ignorance and bigotry which I find as offensive than religion. Though, ironically, most of my distaste of religion is based on its ignorance and bigotry.

Good to know that we can come full circle in America.

I think it is so sad that there are actually "intelligent" people out there trying to justify their obvious hatred of Muslims. At last count there were over sixty-thousand negative comments about a mosque being built near ground zero. Sixty-thousand. That's allot of hate. Hmmm....why is it that there are two scenario's going on in America that remind of something in history....now what is that.....oh yeah Nazi Germany. Stereotypes of Muslims is a wildfire in this country now, every action TV show now has the bad guy as an Arab. People, and I'm not just talking average joes, famous people too, are actually getting on TV, and the internet and patting themselves on the back for being racist. Since when is this okay, or did I miss something? Isn't the whole point of America freedom, or was I lied to in school? I thought there was still something called separation between church and state, and if that's still around why are political people getting involved on where a mosque should be or should not be built. I don't see Sarah Palin on TV, getting angry over a catholic church being built or a baptist church buying property, or a synagogue starting construction. So why, why in 2010 in America is it ok for people to deliberately stop a mosque from being built on the sole reason that their racist? The main thing that is really baking my cookies is that theses people are hiding behind 9/11 and using the terrible events of that day to justify hate. America is multi-race and multi-religion, allot people died on 9/11, all races, all religions, including INNOCENT Muslims. Not every Muslim is a terrorist, and when people say that they sound uneducated. When christian were bombing abortion clinics, killing people, not EVERY christian was labeled a terrorist. Every race, every religion has bad seeds, it's called being human. Not EVERY human is a good person, and people need to understand that. When will the war of religion, which has been around for CENTURIES end, come on people, like I said it's 2010, we just need to stop. I am a christian, I was born and raised in this country, as were my parents, grandparent, great-grandparent and so on and so forth, but my children have a Muslim father who was born over seas. Their father is a good man, a contributing member of society, my children are 3 and 1. I have been on the receiving end of hate speeches geared towards my children starting when my daughter was a newborn. That is pure unadulterated racist HATE. What did a newborn born in 2006, 5 years after 9/11 do to anyone to make people hate her? Is this the kind if America we want our children to grow up in? I know it's not what I want for my children, I am teaching my children to be accepting of people who are different than they are and believe in things differently than they do. This is America, we have always been a melting pot, and the people who are standing over that pot with the strainer need to get a clue. This kind of hate is not why our country became a country. We became a great country because we cared about eachother, and we stood by eachother....we need to get back to that....ONE nation under GOD(and YES that is THE GOD, the christian God, the jewishGod the Muslim God all which is the same God read a book people) indivisible...with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for all.
I wrote this on my newsblog where I comment on stories in the news.

^ *like*

Didn't bother to read ALL the comments but I just wanted to say to those who think this is a bad idea. The point of the mosque is not to mock the rest of the American population. The point is to reach out with the gym, culinary school, and museum. It also has a memorial to 9/11.

The main point is that we Muslims (who live in America) are also Americans. We care about it just like Christians care about it. The World Trade Center in New York was a symbol of America. We are trying to show that we are not the radicals who destroyed the towers. Although its not my place to say this according to the Quran, those radicals cannot be considered Muslims. They violated a basic Islamic law which is not to hurt the innocent.

Meanwhile the Great Mosque of Hajj is not a Saudi Arabian symbol but rather a Muslim one. The Muslim population as whole cares about it. But if you asked a Christian from Russia whether or not he cared about the destruction of the World Trade Center, I doubt he would (just an example, plz don't take offense if you are a christian from russia).

MUSLIM AMERICANS care about AMERICA.

Peace

We must use diplomacy. Think of Hudaibiya. Presently, something is preventing the realisation of the project. Let us not force our way. Let us accept the situation and construct the centre further down; and let us pray. If God wills, we can get better without fighting in the future.

How do the Muslims on this forum feel about Sharia Law in the U.S.? How do you reconcile Islam (and Sharia) with the U.S. Constitution? How do you feel they are compatible? Many non-Islamic Americans see no end to the conflict with Islam because we do not feel that your religious beliefs can be separated from the government, judicial, educational, and cultural systems that make up the U.S. but nonetheless demanded by Islam.

How do the Muslims on this forum feel about Sharia Law in the U.S.? How do you reconcile Islam (and Sharia) with the U.S. Constitution? How do you feel they are compatible? Many non-Islamic Americans see no end to the conflict with Islam because we do not feel that your religious beliefs can be separated from the government, judicial, educational, and cultural systems that make up the U.S. but nonetheless demanded by Islam.

personally hell will freeze over before i live in a country under sharia... or any religious country for that... i am a huge lover of separation of church and state... i think history has shown that combining religion and government is a terrible and often deadly mistake...

I for one don't know of any Muslims who would want Sharia law in the US.... i surely wouldn't. I don't think Sharia law is a must to live a good life because clearly it can't even really be agreed upon in the Islamic world...

clearly sharia law as it is implemented in the Islamic world is not compatible with the US Constitution which gives people a freedom of religion... and by the way the freedom here is why the vast majortiy of Muslims in the US stay here in the US

if Americans feel at war with Islam ... I guess I don't understand this. Even if some Muslims can't separate or reconcile with their religious beliefs and being in the US, they still have every right to believe as they do. But there is a limit to freedom of religion, for example people must obey laws here. There have been raids on Mormon compounds because they were polygamist. So for example religions like Islam which allow polygamy people must follow the law here. So I think there is an equilibrium in check. I think any hardcore fundamental Muslim just dying to live under sharia law for whatever reason simply wouldn't chose to live in the US in the first place...

i'd like to point something out. i always here this fear from many americans like they are afraid Muslims are trying to spread sharia in America but this always makes me laugh a little because I don't know of anything so obsurd. I don't think any Muslims would want sharia in the US. It would never happen here anyway. If you are afraid that somehow Muslims will keep coming here in huge numbers then get elected to political positions... ok... say your theory is true... and say those Muslims were just hellbent on spreading Sharia law in the US.... even if one of these in the conspiracy theory passed such a law, it would clearly be overturned as it would violate separation of church and state... so I guess I don't know what people are worried about.

This post has been edited by Nazia1987: Sep 14 2010, 11:16 PM

How do the Muslims on this forum feel about Sharia Law in the U.S.? How do you reconcile Islam (and Sharia) with the U.S. Constitution? How do you feel they are compatible? Many non-Islamic Americans see no end to the conflict with Islam because we do not feel that your religious beliefs can be separated from the government, judicial, educational, and cultural systems that make up the U.S. but nonetheless demanded by Islam.

In Mauritius, which is a parliamentary democratic country with its own constitution, where christians, hindus, muslims, etc. live in harmony, each one praticing his/her own religion, in respect of the laws of the country (which are not influenced by shariah), this question does not arise. Muslims in this country try to live their religion within the constraints of the social and political environment, as do all people of other faiths. The constraints that muslims face are of the same nature as that which people of other faiths have. Non-muslim Mauritians are not afraid that shariah would be imposed one day. Why should it be different in the US?
The problem with the islamic centre project is that of rational thinking v/s sentimentalism. As long as sentimentalism predominates, we can't find a solution.
If there is incompatibility between shariah and the laws of the country, and if that is a problem, it is purely a personal one. The same applies to all religions.
There is something strange in the modern democratic world. While the majority of people are religious, it is the views of agnostics/atheists which prevail. E.g. the teaching of the theory of evolution in schools, excusive of the religious point of view. Are people afraid that one day, schoolchildren will be taught that God created everything? Apparently no. But even if such fears exist, they do not appear to have the same importance that people seem to give to the question of shariah. Is there an exagerration in opposing shariah to the constitution, in singling out muslims? The answer is probably yes. Which means that the reality is not as bad as some people tend to think. If we can minimise the sentimentalism bias, the issue will be clearer.

How do the Muslims on this forum feel about Sharia Law in the U.S.? How do you reconcile Islam (and Sharia) with the U.S. Constitution? How do you feel they are compatible? Many non-Islamic Americans see no end to the conflict with Islam because we do not feel that your religious beliefs can be separated from the government, judicial, educational, and cultural systems that make up the U.S. but nonetheless demanded by Islam.

In Mauritius, which is a parliamentary democratic country with its own constitution, where christians, hindus, muslims, etc. live in harmony, each one praticing his/her own religion, in respect of the laws of the country (which are not influenced by shariah), this question does not arise. Muslims in this country try to live their religion within the constraints of the social and political environment, as do all people of other faiths. The constraints that muslims face are of the same nature as that which people of other faiths have. Non-muslim Mauritians are not afraid that shariah would be imposed one day. Why should it be different in the US?
The problem with the islamic centre project is that of rational thinking v/s sentimentalism. As long as sentimentalism predominates, we can't find a solution.
If there is incompatibility between shariah and the laws of the country, and if that is a problem, it is purely a personal one. The same applies to all religions.
There is something strange in the modern democratic world. While the majority of people are religious, it is the views of agnostics/atheists which prevail. E.g. the teaching of the theory of evolution in schools, excusive of the religious point of view. Are people afraid that one day, schoolchildren will be taught that God created everything? Apparently no. But even if such fears exist, they do not appear to have the same importance that people seem to give to the question of shariah. Is there an exagerration in opposing shariah to the constitution, in singling out muslims? The answer is probably yes. Which means that the reality is not as bad as some people tend to think. If we can minimise the sentimentalism bias, the issue will be clearer.

The issue of evolution vs. creationism taught in American schools HAS been a major issue for years and will likely never be completely settled. I know this first-hand because I taught biology in H.S. for six years. But whether we choose to believe in or the other simply doesn't change how our government may treat us. The issue is not as incendiary as the issue of shariah because the encroachment of shariah absolutely changes the way people in a society must live. While I appreciate your effort to clarify the emotionalism caused by the mosque/shariah issue, I think it is disingenuous of you to pass off American fears of shariah as simple emotionalism or sentimentality. In Muslim-dominated parts of European cities, shariah has become the de facto law in many ways. It is absurd to think that we are overreacting; countries dominated by sharia are in no way, shape, or form similar to the U.S. (or other Western countries).

angeloscar, just out of curiousity which parts of Europe are you speaking of? It's just that I have never heard of such a thing happening (sharia being incorporated into a democratic nation)

i understand people are afraid, but i dont think sharia could in any way shape or form ever be implemented in the united states, regardless of the size of the Muslim community simply because sharia laws are religious laws and we have the separation of church and state here. It would take more than simply having a large Muslim population. and one thing to be aware of is that the Muslim population in the United States is probably far smaller than you think.

One other thing to point out that i would like to share is the motivation behind most Muslims in the US... ok... most Muslims come to US for one of two reasons... either they are comig to get a good education and job here or they are coming to flee political persecution in their homeland etc reasons like this. the first group, those coming for education, you would be shocked if u just talked to most. you know all of my Muslim friends here in the US get so adjusted to the alternate lifestyle here yet they don't loose their morals from back home. but they still separate the two. for example, i have a friend from oman. back home she will wear abaya, she will not hang out with any guy friends, she will be more quiet etc... Asian culture n all... but here in the US... she is very loud, she has many friends both male n female (but not close male friends, not like they will hang out alone but they still talk, etc) and she wears really beautiful stylish clothes. when she is in oman she respects the way it is there when she is here she respects the way it is here.

i guess what im trying to say is Muslims like anyone else come here and fi they want to stay here they play within the rules. the Muslims you are picturing, like some hardcore fundamentalist, etc... these people don't have much motivation to stay in the US at all because the culture and everything is so different here... this is not the main group that is here in the US. someone like this would study here in the US and then go back to their home country afterwards

angeloscar, just out of curiousity which parts of Europe are you speaking of? It's just that I have never heard of such a thing happening (sharia being incorporated into a democratic nation)

i understand people are afraid, but i dont think sharia could in any way shape or form ever be implemented in the united states, regardless of the size of the Muslim community simply because sharia laws are religious laws and we have the separation of church and state here. It would take more than simply having a large Muslim population. and one thing to be aware of is that the Muslim population in the United States is probably far smaller than you think.

One other thing to point out that i would like to share is the motivation behind most Muslims in the US... ok... most Muslims come to US for one of two reasons... either they are comig to get a good education and job here or they are coming to flee political persecution in their homeland etc reasons like this. the first group, those coming for education, you would be shocked if u just talked to most. you know all of my Muslim friends here in the US get so adjusted to the alternate lifestyle here yet they don't loose their morals from back home. but they still separate the two. for example, i have a friend from oman. back home she will wear abaya, she will not hang out with any guy friends, she will be more quiet etc... Asian culture n all... but here in the US... she is very loud, she has many friends both male n female (but not close male friends, not like they will hang out alone but they still talk, etc) and she wears really beautiful stylish clothes. when she is in oman she respects the way it is there when she is here she respects the way it is here.

i guess what im trying to say is Muslims like anyone else come here and fi they want to stay here they play within the rules. the Muslims you are picturing, like some hardcore fundamentalist, etc... these people don't have much motivation to stay in the US at all because the culture and everything is so different here... this is not the main group that is here in the US. someone like this would study here in the US and then go back to their home country afterwards

Simply Google "sharia in Europe" or sharia law in the West, etc. You will see hundreds of discussions about this topic. Malmo, Sweden, in the UK, France, Germany, etc. I don't mean that entire cities are in the grip of Sharia but there are large enclaves of Muslims in many European cities who are taking over districts or sections of cities and gradually local law and national law is being supplanted by sharia. Unfortunately for the U.S., it is quite apparent that numerous Muslims are immigrating into country who mean to do us harm. Even American born Muslims are being converted to be loyal to Islam first and to the U.S. second (Malik Hassan for example, Ft. Hood massacre). You are right, the Muslim population in the U.S. still hasn't reached a critical mass to have a large effect yet. the birthrate of Muslims is far higher per capita than that of non-Muslims and this is causing a population shift, especially in Europe.

^

Now, I have become a bit of a conspiracy theorist, or maybe a conspiracy hypothesist. LOL

At any rate, I have formed a significant appreciation of the 9/11 truth movement, which continues to demand accountability from the United States government for what appear to be glaring weaknesses in the 9/11 story and their explanation of events. My apologies for not getting into the details as perhaps you may have already heard of this.

I tend to think that the issue of building this mosque is simply a distraction from the main reality - that many non-Muslims do not for one moment believe that 9/11 took place without at the least the consent of the American government if not active design and execution (literally). Now, when I say distraction, I am not attempting to belittle the decision regarding the building of the mosque but I feel suspicious that it is being used as a huge red herring by non-Muslims behind the scenes. Who knows what the background is as to who exactly may have provided incentives to build the mosque near ground zero. And when I say this, I am pointing a jaded little finger at the American government itself. And just to be clear, as if there was any doubt, I am not a Muslim.

Am I being inflammatory? To those Americans who believe otherwise, it is actually not my intent at all. I'm just very suspicious as to whether Muslims an ongoing scapegoating of Muslims is taking place, not for the deeds of other Muslims but the deeds of non-Muslims in North America. Build the mosque, I say. But let's get to the truth.

Anyway, excuse my paranoia but I have been thinking a great deal about this issue and appreciate a place to hear other people's thoughts.

The Trade Centers and Pentagon were fully functioning strucutures with thousands of working employees on a daily basis. To destroy them would mean large construction crews infiltrating multiple levels of physical space and multiple levels of security for many months or years prior to the attacks tearing out physical partitions, etc. This would have to be done starting at ground levels involving blocking streets, rerouting traffic, smuggling massive amounts of explosives, purchasing said explosives, buying off numerous contractors for their silence and all of their blue-collar crews. State and local permits would have to be authorized for these construction plans and independent inspectors would have to be granted permission and then bought off to OK the so-called "renovations." While it is easy for the masses of Muslims who have no say in their government to point to conspiracy, the reality is that a project of this scale is absurd.

But more importantly, was the US government able to also control the Bali bombings? the Madrid bombings? The UK bus bombings? The attacks on the Christian church in Indonesia just this week? The attacks on US embassies in Africa? The USS Cole bombings? Pan Am 103 in Scotland? The first Trade Center bombing? Ft. Hood massacre? Beirut Marine barracks in the 1980's? The Iran hostage taking which held 50+ americans for 444 days? Theo van Gogh in Holland? Salman Rushdie?

Is it not enough that al-Qaeda (and numerous other Islamic groups) are more than happy to declare war on the West? Do you really feel that through three Democratic and three Republican presidencies of the US spanning roughly thirty+ years that this was an inside job? Are you just not up on your recent history or are Muslims like yourself who are educated trying to rewrite history to suit what they'd like to believe? I've studied George Orwell and so have many US citizens; he's well off the mark with his predictions for the Britain for the moment. He's alive and well in many Islamic countries though.

Well, first of all, as I stated, I'm not Muslim. In fact, many people would consider me the very opposite of what a Muslim is. I also felt wary introducing this idea into the thread because I don't want to pull if off to a discussion as to the veracity of the 9/11 truth movement. But it was on my mind.

There is a real difference between a government knowing about something taking place/about to take place and doing something about it. Governments are largely self-interested and nothing is innocent.

I did want to say that there is a growing population of Americans and people from other countries who are demanding a real accounting of the 9/11 tragedy and that there are some significant questions about these events that have never been properly addressed. People can do the reading on that and form their own questions. The events of 9/11 and the explanations of how these events played out provide the tense backdrop to this new drama of the mosque-building. For so many, it is considered a bold slap in the face to the United States. But who is really slapping who?

Orwell depicted, way before the unfolding of our current technology,that those who control the media have enormous power. When we are fed the mosque story over and over again, like white noise, then we can drown out all the information not provided. No critical thinking is taking place. It is all so simplistic, polarized and, in the end, distracting. Who is funding the mosque's building? What are the relationships behind the scenes? What are the deals that have been struck? Where is the real ambiguity behind the black and white, two dimensional commentaries that lead nowhere?

This post has been edited by murkylight: Sep 22 2010, 09:48 PM

^brilliant

Is it not more meaningful for Saudi Arabia to allow a Shia mosque to be built in their country and for Iran to allow a Sunni mosque to be built in their country than for USA to allow a mosque to be built at a very specific and historic location? In the latter case Muslims can build a (either Shia or Sunni) mosque anywhere except a few blocks from the destruction of the World Trade Center, the symbolic structure of the west. As I mentioned before, I support the religious freedom for everyone and everywhere. While people should be vigilant to the political movement of Islam by some Muslims (conquering the world by Islam and Shariah), they should extend the full religious freedom to most other Muslims who do not follow this movement.