Sincere Question : Why Shias Feel Bad To Be Called Rafidhi When The Infallible Imam Himself Says ... Options

[Kalaam]

"Sulaiman said to Imam Sadiq , people call us Rafidhi? Imam Sadiq said , people didn't name you Rafidhi , but Allah named you Rafidhi in Torah and Injeel through Moses and Jesus"
Tafseer e Furat, Page 269

Scans :
http://files.shiacult.webnode.com/20000001...-furat-main.gif
http://files.shiacult.webnode.com/20000001...r-furat-269.gif

The same we find in Bihar al anwar, Vol. 65, p. 97, chapter "virtues of Rafidha"
http://www.dhr12.com/img/3/1-15-1.jpg
http://www.dhr12.com/img/3/1-15-3.jpg

My question is why shias feel so bad when we call them rafidhi when according to them, they were named Rafidhi (rejectors) by Allah himself?


Taken from Tafseer e Furat , Page 269
Available on :
http://shiamultimedia.com/holyquran/tafsee...er-e-Furaat.pdf
http://shiamultimedia.com/tafseer.html

Tafseer e Furat is one of the most famous tafasir of shia cult.

So why should a shia feel bad to be called a rafidhi even?

This post has been edited by Kalaam: Mar 5 2011, 10:38 AM

[Killed Bill]

Rafidhi can usually mean two things

1) One who rejects truth

2) One who holds Ali above the Caliphs

In the sense that we get called "Rafidhi" people usually refer to us as the first one, which is insulting. In the second sense, yes, we are Rafidhi.

For example...

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 3 page 261:

أن هذا المصنف الرافضي الخبيث الكذاب المفتري

“This Rafidhi author who is malicious, liar and fabricator”

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 7 page 209 that Ibn Taimiyah said to Allamah al-Heli:

أن هذا الحمار الرافضي

“This Rafidhi donkey.’

That we find offensive.

I cant find the source, but I remember a scholar (I THINK it was Fakhruddin Razi, not too sure though) who stated something along the lines "If love for the ahlulbayt makes me a rafidhi, then by God I am a rafidhi"

[Gate of Knowledg...]

sala,
Imam al-Shafi'i, the creator of one of the 4 Sunni Schools of thought says the following:

Members of the House of the Prophet, your love is a Divine duty on mankind. God revealed it in His Quran. It is enough among your great privileges that whoever does not bless you, his prayer is void.
If the love of the members of the House of the Prophet is Rafdh (rejection), let mankind and the Jinns testify that I am a Rafidhi (rejector).

Sunni Sources:
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, v27, p166, under the commentary of verse 42:23 of Quran.

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, p88, in connection with the verse 33:33 of Quran.

[Bar Haq]

AOAWRHBHU:

I call myself muslim; however, to rebut the ongoing argument, I'm presenting the brief excerpts of a debate conducted on a similar topic long time back between scholars of Ahel Sunnah and Shiayan-e Ali (a.s.)


SUNNIS ARE REALLY RAFIZIS AND SHIA ARE SUNNIS

Well-Wisher: In reality the Shias are Sunnis, that is, they follow the Holy Qur'an and the sunna of the Holy Prophet. You people are Rafizis because you violate the injunctions of the Holy Qur'an and the commands of the Prophet.


Sheikh: This is strange indeed! You have transformed millions of pure Muslims into Rafizis! Can you advance any argument to support this?


Well-Wisher: I have already told you during previous nights that the Holy Prophet instructed us that after him we should follow the Holy Qur'an and his progeny. But you people deliberately abandoned the progeny of the Prophet and followed others. You rejected the practices of the Holy Prophet. You left those people by order of your two sheikhs and then call the real followers of the sunna of the Holy Prophet Rafizis.


Among such orders there is another explicit injunction in the Holy Qur'an which says, "And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the way fairer." (8:41) The Holy Prophet observed this order and gave khums (1/5) of the wealth acquired from the enemy to his relatives and kinsmen. But you people opposed this practice.


The practice of mut'a is another case in point. It was in accordance with Allah's command. It was sanctioned by the Prophet and his companions. The practice continued during Abu Bakr's caliphate and also during a part of Umar's caliphate. But at the command of Umar you people have made unlawful what Allah made lawful. Moreover, you have rejected the sunna of the Holy Prophet. And yet you call yourselves Sunnis and call us Rafizis.

Caliph Umar himself did not advance any reason for his revoking the divine order. The Sunni ulema have tried in vain to prove that Caliph Umar's decision was just.

This post has been edited by Bar Haq: Nov 2 2010, 12:26 AM

[Kalaam]

I have already told you during previous nights that the Holy Prophet instructed us that after him we should follow the Holy Qur'an and his progeny. But you people deliberately abandoned the progeny of the Prophet and followed others. You rejected the practices of the Holy Prophet. You left those people by order of your two sheikhs and then call the real followers of the sunna of the Holy Prophet Rafizis.

Funniest argument. Like a christian telling a Muslim you have abondoned Jesus Christ. Our reaction is the same as will be the reaction of that Muslim.

[Bar Haq]

I have already told you during previous nights that the Holy Prophet instructed us that after him we should follow the Holy Qur'an and his progeny. But you people deliberately abandoned the progeny of the Prophet and followed others. You rejected the practices of the Holy Prophet. You left those people by order of your two sheikhs and then call the real followers of the sunna of the Holy Prophet Rafizis.

Funniest argument. Like a christian telling a Muslim you have abondoned Jesus Christ. Our reaction is the same as will be the reaction of that Muslim.

Indeed very funny -- glad you brought Christians in this discussion, even Chrisitans accepted the spiritual significance of Ahle-Bayt (a.s.) through an event of Mubahila, but unfortunately, the mainstream so called Muslims are still struggling to learn the religious significance of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)'s progeny:

The following incident is related to the event of "Mubahala" (which means imprecation, or invoking the curse of Allah upon the liar), which took place in the 9th-10th year of Hijrah. In that year a delegation consisting of 14 Christian priests came from Najran to meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF). When they met the Prophet they asked him what is his opinion about Jesus . The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "You may take rest today and you will receive the reply afterwards." The next day, 3 verses of Quran (3:59-61) about Jesus were revealed. When Christians did not accept the words of Allah, The Prophet recited the last revealed verse:

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and our selves and your selves; then let us be earnest in prayer and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars. (Quran 3:61).

In this way, the Prophet (PBUH&HF) challenged the Christians. The next day the Christian priests came out on one side of the field. Also on the other side, the Prophet came out of his house carrying al-Husain in his arm with al-Hasan walking along with him while he was holding his hand. Behind him was Fatimah al-Zahra, and behind her was Ali, peace be upon them all. When the Christians saw the five pure souls, and how determined the Prophet is in his idea that he put the closest people to him at risk, the Christians were terrified and abstained from the proposed malediction (Mubahala) and submitted to a treaty with the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

al-Suyuti who was a great Sunni scholar, wrote:

In the above verse (3:61), according to what Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (the great companion of the Prophet) said, the word "sons" refers to al-Hasan and al-Husain, the word "women" refers to Fatimah, and the word "our selves" refer to the Prophet and Ali. Thus Ali is referred as "the self" of the Prophet (Nafs of the Prophet). Reference: al-Durr al-Manthoor by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v2, p38

It follows that just as it is unlawful to seek to be superior to the Prophet, similarly it is unlawful to supersede Ali (who is the "self" of the Prophet according to the words of Allah). Any one who presumed to supersede Ali, was, in essence, presumed to supersede the Prophet! This is another Quranic proof for the right of Imam Ali as the immediate successor of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Muslim and al-Tirmidhi both confirm the above incident, and recorded the following tradition in their authentic collections of traditions:

Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas: ...And when the verse 3:61 was revealed, the Prophet called Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain. Then the Prophet said: "O Lord! These are my family members (Ahli)." Sunni references:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1871, the end of tradition #32. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p654 al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p150, who said this tradition is authentic based on the criteria set by two Shaikhs, al-Bukhari and Muslim. Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p25





Some Sunni scholars have narrated that on the day of consultation for appointing the ruler after the death of Umar, Imam Ali argued with the members of Shura reminding them his rights to the Caliphate, and one of his reasons was the incident of Mubahala:

On the day of consultation, Ali argued with the committee members saying: "I adjure you in the name of Allah, is there anyone amongst you closer in relationship to the Messenger of Allah than me? Is there any other man whom the Prophet made him 'his (own) soul' (Nafs), and that he made his children 'his (own) children', and his women 'his (own) women'?" They replied: "No, by God!"

Sunni reference:

• al-Darqunti, as per:
• al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p239

It is also narrated that:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Verily, Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, has placed the progeny of each prophet into his backbone (Sulb), and He, Exalted, has placed my progeny into the backbone of Ali Ibn Abi Talib."

Sunni references:

• al-Tabarani
• Abul-Khair al-Haakimi, on the authority of al-Abbas
• al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p239
• al-Kunooz al-Mataalib

It is also narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "Me and Ali are from one tree, and the rest of people are from different trees."

: ^ ^ |. || | : | : ^ w | |. | _,_w _7_w . _o w |_,_|| _,|_w q o ]_7 |q o _7_w . _o _|_c q |_,|(_S /. (_) (_/ /: / / /. (_) (_S /

Sunni references:

• al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2, p190
• Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
• al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani, from Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari

In another Sunni commentary of Quran, it is narrated on the authority of Abdullah Ibn Umar that:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "Had there been any soul on the whole earth better than Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husain, Allah would have commanded me to take them along with me to Mubahala. But as they were superior in dignity and respect to all human be beings, Allah confined His choice on them only for participation in Mubahala."

Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Baidhawi, under the commentary of Verse 3:61

Concluding, the event of Mubahala between the Prophet (PBUH&HF) the Christians was significant in many aspects, among them are: 1. It proved to be a lesson for all the Christians of Arabia who no longer dared any confrontation with the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF).

2. The invitation of "Mubahala" (literally meaning cursing each other) was directed by Allah and it was in compliance with His Command that the Holy Prophet and his Ahlul-Bayt along with him to the field of Mubahala. This serves to show how affairs pertaining to prophethood and Islam are determined by the Will of Allah; allowing no margin of interference from the common people (Ummah). (The matter of Imam Ali's succession after the Prophet should be viewed similarly)

3. The indispensability of Imam Ali, Lady Fatimah, Imam al-Hasan and Imam al-Husain in the following of the precepts of the Holy Prophet could no longer be disputed.

4. Notwithstanding their childhood, al-Hasan and al-Husain did nevertheless serve as two active partners of the Holy Prophet on the field of Mubahala. This yields the conclusion that age is no criteria for the greatness of those infallible souls.

5. That the Holy Prophet's act of having preferred a few obviously elevates their status above all others.

6. Traditions from the Prophet with regards to this event clearly indicates who the Ahlul-Bayt are.

7. Imam Ali has been mentioned as the 'Self' of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) according to the revelation of Allah, and is, in fact, superior to all others with regard to the matter of succession.

This post has been edited by Bar Haq: Nov 2 2010, 05:40 AM

[Kalaam]

عن الحسن بن علی علیهم السلام، قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله علیه وآله وسلم: (إن أبا بكر منی بمنزلة السمع، وإن عمر منی بمنزلة البصر، وإن عثمان منی بمنزلة الفؤاد)
البرهان: 4/564، 565
معانی الاخبار , ص ۱۱۰



Sayyidina Hasan bin Ali narrates that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said : Abu Bakr is like my ears, Umar is like my eyes, and Uthman is like my heart.

Shia references:
Burhan 4/564-565
Maani al Akhbar , Page 110

Definitely they should have succeeded the Prophet (peace be upon him) in this sequence.

[Bar Haq]

عن الحسن بن علی علیهم السلام، قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله علیه وآله وسلم: (إن أبا بكر منی بمنزلة السمع، وإن عمر منی بمنزلة البصر، وإن عثمان منی بمنزلة الفؤاد)
البرهان: 4/564، 565
معانی الاخبار , ص ۱۱۰



Sayyidina Hasan bin Ali narrates that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said : Abu Bakr is like my ears, Umar is like my eyes, and Uthman is like my heart.

Shia references:
Burhan 4/564-565
Maani al Akhbar , Page 110

Definitely they should have succeeded the Prophet (peace be upon him) in this sequence.

Any relevance of this hadeeth in reference to Quranic verse?

The one we posted in favor of Ahle Bayt (a.s.) - Mubahila is infact reference to Al Quran further strenghtened endorsed by different sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)