Ontological argument for God's existence Options

1. God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived
2. If such a being were only to exiest in our minds and in reality
3. Therefore God, as defined, cannot only exiest in our minds
4. Therefore God must exiest in reality as well.

Possible objections?

Cheers.

1. Island Paradise is the greatest conceivable island
2. It is greater to exist than to not exist
3. Therefore, Island Paradise exists.

That's one objection. Personally I think the ontological argument is weird.

Just because you imagine something does not make it real.
If I think that pink unicorns exist, do they? Of course not.

^ Have you even read the argument? Your response makes a caricature of the argument.

My response isn't perfect either, I'm hoping that kellyjaz will see the error in my logic.

If I think that pink unicorns exist, do they? Of course not.

Dont you dare hate on my pink unicorns. kidding.


The problem with your argument kellyjaz is the predisposition that God is Great. An atheist will not believe that such a great thing is possible. If you were to have a logical argument showing that God is great, then maybe you can get to this. But to prove God is great you have to prove God exists. And then this just becomes a circular statement.

^ I'm not so sure that's the flaw. The argument defines God as great.

^ I'm not so sure that's the flaw. The argument defines God as great.

Well, then that argument starts off as flawed, and down it goes.

How can you define something which you cannot observe, see, really feel, etc. You can say you might feel God but you aren't actually touching him/her etc. All we have is writing from men that said they felt god or experienced someone that said they were his prophet. None have actually seen him etc.

I have never seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched radio waves, microwaves, gravity, or dark matter. All of those exist.

Just because you cant use your senses to to detect it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This post has been edited by Simba: Oct 4 2007, 03:16 AM

Paranoia, any hypothetical entity (including God) requires a definition. The argument defines the principal characteristic of God (as Anslem conceived Him). The first statement is simply a definition.

But those 3 former we can feel the effect of, and use.

Answer 1: One can argue that they feel the effects of God and one can also argue that they gravity doesn't exist.

Answer 2: That still doesn't explain the idea of dark matter.

How can nothing exist? Can you define "nothing"?

True. I was actually talking to my friend about this... I waa asking him to give me proof of his existence, and he could not come up with a single thing. At first he said: "Well, you can physically touch me." But then that led back to figment of imagination, where this entire world might be a matrix, and I'm just sitting in a chair with a giant needle in the back of my head. (lol)

True. I was actually talking to my friend about this... I waa asking him to give me proof of his existence, and he could not come up with a single thing. At first he said: "Well, you can physically touch me." But then that led back to figment of imagination, where this entire world might be a matrix, and I'm just sitting in a chair with a giant needle in the back of my head. (lol)

In my opinion Descartes gave this question the best treatment in Discourse on the Method.

You can read it online:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Discourse_on_the_Method

1. Island Paradise is the greatest conceivable island
2. It is greater to exist than to not exist
3. Therefore, Island Paradise exists.

That's one objection. Personally I think the ontological argument is weird.

Island paradise is contingent,God is not.

This post has been edited by kellyjaz: Oct 10 2007, 10:42 AM

For an island of any kind to come into existence it must have a source or some form of process. To call a creator God, He has to be Independent and non contingent, if he was contingent then he would not be god.

This post has been edited by kellyjaz: Oct 11 2007, 05:32 AM

1. Island Paradise is the greatest conceivable island
2. It is greater to exist than to not exist
3. Therefore, Island Paradise exists.

Lets apply the same logic to aliens.

1. Aliens are the greatest conceivable human discovery.
2. It is greater to exist than not to exist
3. Therefore, aliens exist.

Tell this to a scientist and they will laugh at you.

No one has answered my argument that we know dark matter exists but we cannot detect it. Does this not play a role into the problem with Atheists because they are using the wrong method as to detect God?

Simba, that was my entire point.

Simba, that was my entire point.

oops....

1. Aliens are the greatest conceivable human discovery.
2. It is greater to exist than not to exist
3. Therefore, aliens exist.

Aliens dont exist.