Jesus As Son Of God Options

Can jesus be proven as son of god?



ma'a salaam.



****amru Hu kun****

please don't bother "replying" with something like "can it be proved that 'god' exists?"

fair as the response may be, it is not what i am looking at. & if u have to, then please use it only as the last resort.



hand :-)

Can jesus be proven as son of god?



ma'a salaam.



****amru Hu kun****

I can say that in the end He will be. That is why He is praise worthy. I could prove this with scriptures but too many muslims discredit the Bible. But if you like I will show you scriptural proof. There is no DNA test that can be run on Mary to prove that God impregnated her.

@from the wind



I don't find all of the bible very inspiring, but i am okay with it. I would be interested in seeing this proof.



can u elaborate a bit on this conception?



tc.

hand. :-)

@from the wind



I don't find all of the bible very inspiring, but i am okay with it. I would be interested in seeing this proof.



can u elaborate a bit on this conception?



tc.

hand. :-)

Luke 4:41
And devils came out of many crying out, and saying though art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that He was Christ.

Mark 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said; "Thou art Christ the Son of the Living God"

John 11:24;27
Martha saith I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day...She said unto Him "Yea Lord I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God that should come into the world"

Here are three events where the Christ Jesus was found as the Son of God. Devils, the enemies of God confessed, His greatest disciple had it revealed to him, and a good standing woman identified Jesus as the Son of God.

Many Christians call Jesus God as they believe in the Trinity. But Scripture proves that the Jesus was indeed the Son of God.

As Jesus was the Christ or the "Messiah" Christians and true Jews know that He (the Christ) according to prophecy would be the Son of God. Of course most "orthodox" Jews deny Christ but who said they were right or true. Muslims would argue that Christ never said He was the Son of God, but if you read the Bible you will see that it is on the contrary. Unfortunately, a great division is in the Christ Body becuase of some Christians saying Jesus was God and others saying Jesus was the Son of God. But the Bible holds the the truth.

I would like to see a verse where Jesus(as) said he is the son

that is referring to the misconception that Jesus is God

Jesus(AS) speaks

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

God(SWT) speaks

I even, I am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)

I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else." (Isaiah 45:22)

the assumption that all I's in the bible are Jesus(AS)'s words i the misconception.

@from the wind- But the Bible holds the the truth.

jesus as son of man:
(matthew) 8:20. And Jesus saith to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests; but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.

jesus as son of david:
(matthew) 1:1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:




israel as son of god:
(exodus) 4:22. And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.

jesus as son of god:
(john) 11:27. She saith to him: Yea, Lord, I have believed that thou art Christ, the son of god, who art come into this world.

(any) peacemaker as son of god:
(matthew) 5:9. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God.


more sons of god:
(genesis) 6:2 6:2. The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose.
(job) 1:6. Now on a certain day, when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them.



why "single" out jesus & god?


tc.

wish u joy. :-)

This post has been edited by jzere: May 29 2009, 11:08 AM

@from the wind-



no dope on jesus' birth?



tc.



wish u joy. :-)

I would like to see a verse where Jesus(as) said he is the son

that is referring to the misconception that Jesus is God

Jesus(AS) speaks

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)

God(SWT) speaks

I even, I am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)

I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else." (Isaiah 45:22)

the assumption that all I's in the bible are Jesus(AS)'s words i the misconception.

You mistake me, I am a Christian, but I don't believe in a Trinity I don't call Jesus God Himself, rather I say Jesus is the Son of God.

John 5:31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

If you understand this verse then you should also understand why Jesus did not have many occasions where He said He was the Son of God. This why I gave three times where others bore witness to Christ. But I do not call all the I's in the Bible Christ's. One must have an understanding of the scriptures so I will grant that a lot of Christians that don't understand all the way do.

@from the wind- But the Bible holds the the truth.

jesus as son of man:
(matthew) 8:20. And Jesus saith to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests; but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.

jesus as son of david:
(matthew) 1:1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:




israel as son of god:
(exodus) 4:22. And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.

jesus as son of god:
(john) 11:27. She saith to him: Yea, Lord, I have believed that thou art Christ, the son of god, who art come into this world.

(any) peacemaker as son of god:
(matthew) 5:9. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God.


more sons of god:
(genesis) 6:2 6:2. The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose.
(job) 1:6. Now on a certain day, when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them.



why "single" out jesus & god?


tc.

wish u joy. :-)

Mark 12:35
And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?

Throughout the scripture Christ goes to prove that he is the Son of God.
I can't really force this, but in order to see it you have to understand the scriptures. Read them all the way through.

As for the Old Testament scriptures you used, the sons of God refer to angels

As fo Exodus 4:22 when God gave word to Moses He was refering to the entire House of Israel which as you pointed out from the New Testament are to be the peacemakers as well as the other beatudes that point to sons of God.

Proverbs 29:21
He that delicately bringeth up his servant form a child shall have him become his son at the length (or in the end).

Jesus was born of God and raised under God before He came to the earth, when He was born on the earth He studied the way of God from a child. Jesus usually identified Himself as the servant of God until the end of His life on earth. Being the Son of God for all times. Not to say God didn't accept other servants as sons, but only the Anointed One was born of God.

If I go to far into this it will bring up an entirely different debate. So I will get to the point... The Bible is not the Quran, but that doesn't mean it is an easy read story book.
You must know and understand certain things before reading it for proofs.

@from the wind-Not to say God didn't accept other servants as sons, but only the Anointed One was born of God.

reference.

there are many sons of god in the bible, & there is nothing to suggest that there was anything special about jesus' "sonship".



@-The Bible is not the Quran, but that doesn't mean it is an easy read story book.
 
irrelevant; nobody brought up the quraan. it is the bible itself that accords jesus the same sonship as the other sons of god.





tc.


wish u joy. :-)

@from the wind-Not to say God didn't accept other servants as sons, but only the Anointed One was born of God.

reference.

there are many sons of god in the bible, & there is nothing to suggest that there was anything special about jesus' "sonship".



@-The Bible is not the Quran, but that doesn't mean it is an easy read story book.

irrelevant; nobody brought up the quraan. it is the bible itself that accords jesus the same sonship as the other sons of god.





tc.


wish u joy. :-)

there are many sons of god in the bible, & there is nothing to suggest that there was anything special about jesus' "sonship".

That's where you are wrong, the entire new testament is meant to prove Jesus as the Son of God. No other "sons" of God mentioned share this. No angels, nor David, nor the House of Israel, nor the peacemakers share Christ's death and ressurection. There are only a few other times where "other sons" of God are mentioned. Also according to old testament prophecy the Messiah (Christ) was the Son of God. Which is why the previous scriptural proofs I gave show Him as such, and not just as the Christ.

irrelevant; nobody brought up the quraan. it is the bible itself that accords jesus the same sonship as the other sons of god.

Most relevant; We are speaking in a Muslim forum, Muslims have a different viewpoint. A viewpoint that will lead to the same mistake as you have made. For the Bible does not show Jesus to be the same (or share the same sonship) as others who are the "sons" of God. As I said before, there are things you must understand and know when reading the Bible. Just because it is not the Quran (I say this for Muslims), the Bible is not some easy read book full of contradictions.

It seems that you have read the Bible some. But you should keep reading until you get the full message. I dont say this to insult you, but you make a mistake in thinking that the Bible is just a book to be taken for religious ideas. Maybe the case is different, but you should read the Holy Scriptures until you have a greater understanding of what is there.

@from the wind-

u are confusing jesus' sonship with other aspects of his life (or death); his death & resurrection have no bearing on his sonship. if ur belief tells u it does have a bearing, then demonstrate it. given that u have been not able to reference ur claims with (biblical) verses, ur view is not representative of the bible.

  regarding the muslim view: muslims & most non-christians are not guided by ur "believe-&-understand" stance, & would question the very testimony of the bible; i am bypassing it to allow u a fair chance to show that if u believe in the bible's testimony u can understand "christian" concepts.



tc.

wish u joy. :-)

Lets just clarify jzere - According to Muslims the Bible and the Torah were changed along the way, hence the Quran was revealed.

Anyways back to the point of jesus being the son of God, it's really a question of why God would want ONE human to be his son? is this fair?
Is God fair? Yes both Christians and Muslims believe this is so. Those who don't its another matter.

So why would he choose one person to be called his 'son' ?
Of course he had the power to bring Jesus back, but that was HIS power alone, for he created Jesus in the first place.

Hope this helps you. With all due respect.

Peace out.

This post has been edited by JJ: Jun 4 2009, 05:24 AM

@jj-



thanks for ur help.



tc.

wish u joy. :-)

@from the wind-

u are confusing jesus' sonship with other aspects of his life (or death); his death & resurrection have no bearing on his sonship. if ur belief tells u it does have a bearing, then demonstrate it. given that u have been not able to reference ur claims with (biblical) verses, ur view is not representative of the bible.

regarding the muslim view: muslims & most non-christians are not guided by ur "believe-&-understand" stance, & would question the very testimony of the bible; i am bypassing it to allow u a fair chance to show that if u believe in the bible's testimony u can understand "christian" concepts.



tc.

wish u joy. :-)

u are confusing jesus' sonship with other aspects of his life (or death); his death & resurrection have no bearing on his sonship. if ur belief tells u it does have a bearing, then demonstrate it. given that u have been not able to reference ur claims with (biblical) verses, ur view is not representative of the bible.

Wait and listen please, I will say this again, the prophecy and Christ words are to prove Him the Christ, and the Son of God as Christ who is the Son of God. How can I give you more scripture to prove when you haven't accepted the first scriptures I gave you. The truth is that you are being more of a Bible critic than reasonable debate contender. But I will give you one scipture that any Christian will agree is something that must be understood

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son; that whosoever shall believe on Him (His Son) shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you think I'm saying Jesus' life events or ressurection are just the factors of Christ's "sonship" you are mistaken. The prophecy that was fulfilled through Christ's life makes Him the one known as the Son of God. Again I will say, the Christ is the Son of God. But for the record, the aspects of Christ's life, death, and ressurection do prove His "sonship" to be greater than any other Biblical sons of God.

regarding the muslim view: muslims & most non-christians are not guided by ur "believe-&-understand" stance, & would question the very testimony of the bible; i am bypassing it to allow u a fair chance to show that if u believe in the bible's testimony u can understand "christian" concepts.

If that's the case, you are saying that all Muslims and non Christians don't call their beliefs "faith". More so, you are suggesting that all others promote speaking on their "holy" literature without knowledge and understanding. I haven't told you to believe yet. I don't mean to offend you, but I don't think you would understand true Christian concepts. I'm basing this on the fact that at this moment we are still going over Jesus is the Son of God. Even if you know some things I'm pretty sure that you are still hard towards Christianity. But I do find you honorable for giving me a fair chance to the best of your ability.

Lets just clarify jzere - According to Muslims the Bible and the Torah were changed along the way, hence the Quran was revealed.

Anyways back to the point of jesus being the son of God, it's really a question of why God would want ONE human to be his son? is this fair?
Is God fair? Yes both Christians and Muslims believe this is so. Those who don't its another matter.

So why would he choose one person to be called his 'son' ?
Of course he had the power to bring Jesus back, but that was HIS power alone, for he created Jesus in the first place.

Hope this helps you. With all due respect.

Peace out.

My question is, who are humans to question the works and will of God?

Lets just clarify jzere - According to Muslims the Bible and the Torah were changed along the way, hence the Quran was revealed.

Anyways back to the point of jesus being the son of God, it's really a question of why God would want ONE human to be his son? is this fair?
Is God fair? Yes both Christians and Muslims believe this is so. Those who don't its another matter.

So why would he choose one person to be called his 'son' ?
Of course he had the power to bring Jesus back, but that was HIS power alone, for he created Jesus in the first place.

Hope this helps you. With all due respect.

Peace out.

My question is, who are humans to question the works and will of God?

I did blush when i read that, because you're kinda right. Who are humans to question the works and will of God. We should just let it be. I was trying to make a point and answer the question, but ended up adding more rhetorical Q than i thought to make my point clear and make myself think more clearly in these matters of whats right and wrong.

This post has been edited by JJ: Jun 4 2009, 12:22 PM

@from the wind-




i am accepting ur verses without reservation; the point i am making is that jesus does not appear to be the only son of god, & this u urself seem to admit when u say that certain aspects about him make his sonship superior to that of other sons.

to make myself clear, a son of god in biblical parlance appears to be one who has found some kind of favor with god; that is an understanding which seems consistent across the bible (cf. devil as father). if u claim that his sonship has a different texture than that of other sons, that is what i invite u to prove, if u are willing.



i am (only) allowing u the testimony of the bible, & to prove using the words of the bible sonship of jesus beyond that of other servants'; i am not allowing any set concepts. let me state that it is not my intention to attempt to disprove anybody's belief, just to understand to my satisfaction.



tc.

wish u joy. :-)

This post has been edited by jzere: Jun 4 2009, 11:43 AM

Yes,
It is I.
I am the way, the truth and the light. He or She that believes in me although yee are dead yet shall you live. For no one comes to the Father least you come through me, for the Father knows his son, and the son knows his Father, Me and my Father are one.

jumal@beeislam.com
www.beeislam.com