Suicide, Is it worth it?? Options

Ok so we all know that it's forbidden, and that we aren't allowed to take our own life, but I was thinking that they say we have free will, but we don't have a choice in living or dying!! At least we should have a choice in one of them.. isn't enough that we are created out of the selfish of our parents.. they had us to fulfill the desire of parenting they had, and not all of them can handle their own kids when they start their teen years..

Don't you think God would understand such a decision?? If he's not fixing your life.. u r already living in hell.. so why not just finish up this life and move on to the next.. I bet afterlife isn't that much difference, and it could be better.. God knows your hardships, and maybe it's a sign for you to end your life.. why are we limited to the think that these are tests for us to overcome them and continue living?? It could be a sign for you take action.. I know if God wants you dead he will do it, but maybe he wants you to take that decision yourself.. everyone has a purpose in life.. so maybe that's your purpose.. to take your own life to teach your surroundings a lesson..

Please don't be like omg u r a kafir how could you think of that..
or omg u need to see a shrink because "having suicidal thoughts is a natural and rational response
to the horror being perpetrated by ignorant human beings. it does not imply that one is crazy,
or necessarily mentally ill." http://www.faqs.org/faqs/suicide/yes/ Besides, I'm not really saying that I will do it or not..


So, what are your thoughts??

You don't understand the gift of free will and until you do you're lost.

Don't you think God would understand such a decision?? If he's not fixing your life.. u r already living in hell.. so why not just finish up this life and move on to the next.. I bet afterlife isn't that much difference, and it could be better.. God knows your hardships, and maybe it's a sign for you to end your life.. why are we limited to the think that these are tests for us to overcome them and continue living?? It could be a sign for you take action.. I know if God wants you dead he will do it, but maybe he wants you to take that decision yourself.. everyone has a purpose in life.. so maybe that's your purpose.. to take your own life to teach your surroundings a lesson..

Thats the thing LIFE IS A TEST BRO!!

Allah knows everything.. he has also stated verily with every difficulty there is ease so he would say ok human ur life has no ease so give up rather he will see what ur decision is.

move on to the next life?

u dont have a right to decide that .. Allah would give u a sighn to kill urself.. thats like no free will. everything u do is UR CHOICE so it is UR CHOICE TO KILL URSELF..

if God wants you dead he will do it

(yeh when he decides)..

also ur actions affect ur death.. Adultery shortens ur life.. sileh rahmi (goodness to relatives) lengthens ur life.. (ref :greater sins.. by Ayatullah Dastaghaib) Thats not ur purpose if it was then thats like blaming God by saying he made you to kill urself .. Do u understand..

The fact is bro .. life is given by Allah so only he has the right to take it wen HE decides right.. so u killing urself wud only mean loss in hope of Allah..
surely if u beleive in Allah the life in this world isnt like hell. because Allah

a.) tests his servants..
b.) tests those he loves..
Example of prophet Ayyub as (name me one person who went thru all he did or more.) i know he's a excellent prophet but he was still human and had feelings too.

he lost his children,his house,his wealth,his animals,had a horrible disease and was thrown out of town.. he could have killed himself but no he patiently persevered and thanked Allah think about how close he got to Allah throu that.. and satan lost his bet..later on Allah have him new children evreuything back and his health. so say for example.. ur having ahard time in ur life..one day there will be ease..or say ur having alot of ease one day there will be hardship..effort takes us places..

you know a hadith e qudsi..(word of Allah) says to us

"patience with regards to my obedience is much easier than patience in hellfire.."

I also read that this life is a test and commiting sucide is like walking out of the test or something like that anyhow we ideally are supposed to be utilizing this life in Allahs way comiting suicide is just no way out rather ur facing Angry Allah and straight to hell. i would rather face the tortures of this life then kill myslef and throw myself in hell. thats my opinion..

ill just finish of by saying that prophet said with regards to hell.

hell is so hot that if a person were to be taken out of hell and put into an oven he would be able to SLEEP WITH EASE IN IT. i.e. further on he said "but hell is completly intolerable"

Hope this helps..

.

There is a simple answer to your question....

No.

Suicide is not worth it, even if we don't bring in religious arguments..... even when you life seem hopeless there is always a reason to keep living.... no matter how small.....

"A suicide is a sentinel who has abandoned his post" - G.K. Chesterton

^ So generalized, what if someone is in excruciating pain with no way to recover?

What is a continuation of life but a continuation of suffering? This life is not given for our comfort, but for our labour and suffering, in order to merit eternal life.

Ok so we all know that it's forbidden, and that we aren't allowed to take our own life, but I was thinking that they say we have free will, but we don't have a choice in living or dying!! At least we should have a choice in one of them.. isn't enough that we are created out of the selfish of our parents.. they had us to fulfill the desire of parenting they had, and not all of them can handle their own kids when they start their teen years..

Freewill entails having the moral choice to either live or die. In order to have this choice one needs to have the capability. Freewill is there mere ability to either believe or disbelieve.

You should not call your parents or any parents selfish. The rights of parents over children are enormous.

Don't you think God would understand such a decision?? If he's not fixing your life.. u r already living in hell.. so why not just finish up this life and move on to the next.. I bet afterlife isn't that much difference, and it could be better.. God knows your hardships, and maybe it's a sign for you to end your life.. why are we limited to the think that these are tests for us to overcome them and continue living?? It could be a sign for you take action.. I know if God wants you dead he will do it, but maybe he wants you to take that decision yourself.. everyone has a purpose in life.. so maybe that's your purpose.. to take your own life to teach your surroundings a lesson..

Allah Knows everything.

وعنده مفاتح الغيب لا يعلمها إلا هو ويعلم ما في البر والبحر وما تسقط من ورقة إلا يعلمها ولا حبة في ظلمات الأرض ولا رطب ولا يابس إلا في كتاب مبين

And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them except Him. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it. And no grain is there within the darknesses of the earth and no moist or dry [thing] but that it is [written] in a clear record. [Surah Al-An'aam, verse 59]

Everyone has a purpose. The Purpose of Life is to glorify the lord. As Muslims we love our creator, we should be kind, generous, patient and humble people.

So, what are your thoughts??

I think you are confused. I would recommend a few books and articles if you are interested on the purpose of life in Islam.

^ So generalized, what if someone is in excruciating pain with no way to recover?

Pain can be a means of Purification from sins or punishment for sins. But either way pain does not necessitate God's wrath in Islam.

What is a continuation of life but a continuation of suffering? This life is not given for our comfort, but for our labour and suffering, in order to merit eternal life.

So why did your version of Jesus die, to bring pain or God's Grace? Do me a favour and be consistent with your book[s].

This post has been edited by TheSincerePath: Jun 2 2009, 05:43 AM

I think the "larger life" is the same as here only BIGGER. As a egg matures within it's protective shell so we mature getting ready to shed this shell of ours to be born into that Larger life.

So if we choose to take our life, will we not be in a far worse position in the Hereafter? Born into it blind or crippled, not able to enjoy what is in store for us, as we should?

Life certainly is a struggle, and those who struggle will rise above the discriminators that we see as insurmountable today, just as a seen struggles to get to the sun light thru the darkness of the soil, but one day it reaches the light only to take on a new struggle with the wind rain and snow, yet it has overcome each to grow tall and strong.

I think the point is don't give up, persistence is rewarded, look at what you have come thru, and not what you are facing, and look as there are others facing similar trials, and still more facing trials much harder than you.

So why did your version of Jesus die, to bring pain or God's Grace? Do me a favour and be consistent with your book[s].

What?

So why did your version of Jesus die, to bring pain or God's Grace? Do me a favour and be consistent with your book[s].

What?

"Wha Wha ah uh eeh" lol

You are a Christian, My statement was in response to what you said about suffering.

It is easy to see the bad in life. Getting bogged down with sadness and despair. Knowing that while free will is praised and a known, but how people limit that free will "for your own good". Seeing so much crapola and every day if you even watch the news the volume of sad things and stupidity of so many invididuals.

But if you get to the point where you are seriously contemplating killing yourself, well idk. when it happened to me i figured i had nothing to loose and i remembered some author somewhere in some book (yes vague, i have a mind that dislikes details...) said something along the lines of "A warrior who has nothing to loose is the most dangerious kind." And i figured what the heck, if i have nothing to loose, but can still draw a breath~ then why not keep living? Find something to fight for, a cause to take up, something to LIVE for.

and i did.

Sometimes i have second thoughts thinking that (this was also the time period that i became agnostic, then later athiest) that maybe i was being a coward, although it has gotten better and blah blah blah, i can see no reason why out of all those bad feelings optimisim came from nowhere...

and when i have second thoughts i make lemonade. xD

Ok so we all know that it's forbidden, and that we aren't allowed to take our own life, but I was thinking that they say we have free will, but we don't have a choice in living or dying!! At least we should have a choice in one of them.. isn't enough that we are created out of the selfish of our parents.. they had us to fulfill the desire of parenting they had, and not all of them can handle their own kids when they start their teen years..

Don't you think God would understand such a decision?? If he's not fixing your life.. u r already living in hell.. so why not just finish up this life and move on to the next.. I bet afterlife isn't that much difference, and it could be better.. God knows your hardships, and maybe it's a sign for you to end your life.. why are we limited to the think that these are tests for us to overcome them and continue living?? It could be a sign for you take action.. I know if God wants you dead he will do it, but maybe he wants you to take that decision yourself.. everyone has a purpose in life.. so maybe that's your purpose.. to take your own life to teach your surroundings a lesson..

Wow Sincere Path i think your replies are really meaningful mashallah.
& Ducky's always makes me chuckle.

But onto the topic of suicidal thoughts, you've answered the question yourself but given too much thought that's why your becoming confused. You know that God has the power to destroy whatever he wills, so why as a human are your proposing an argument against God's decision on what to do. By saying 'maybe' you are not sure yourself, you are merely suggesting it could be a possibility and the possibility is slim.
As number 1) Muslims believe the Quran was sent by God to show everyone how to live their life according to the way God wants it to be.

By saying 'maybe' you got to make that decision yourself and 'maybe' God wants me to do this and that, unknowingly you are making up your own rules, which are in the Quran already. Full Stop. Period.

Its good your asking questions, but i think the truth lies in the history back to when Islam came about, people had free will and worshipped idols if they wanted to they could have ended their lives 'selfishly.' If you think your parents are selfish to create you think of the pain your mother went through to give birth to you. I know its hard but its the least we can do to pay them back, for feeding, loving and caring for us even when we go through 'phases' in our lives when the light is fading.


We don't pause *think* about our parents thoughts and how they feel and in doing so we are unintentionally or intentionally being selfish ourselves and not realising if we end our lives, what would be the impact on our loved ones. For example, if you weren't satisfied with your life and ended it, how would your family feel? - did you even think about that?

Selfish much?


With all due respect,

JJ

Hmmm thnx 4 ur thoughts.
Naah i'm not gona kill myself 2 much of a coward.. So I'll just go & do all the extrem sports & adventures.. Or maybe go help out in geza or afghanistan loool..

Ducky, i like wat ur post the best.. It was uplifting.. I kinda made up lotsa things 2 live 4.. Its not working yet lol.. I'll just go chill w a lemonad 4 the time being

jj! My sweet pal! Yah dont let me get started on my parents.. To stressful :s

chailvr, the sick ones should get high 2 ease the pain & that would eventually kill em.. Lol..
Seriously, i'm not sure.. There's some islamic ruling 4 it, but i dont know what it is..

The topic of suicide, to me, tends to be a highly important subject I think of on a constant basis. I'm majoring in clinical psychology, so the act of committing suicide, or people telling me they think about it, is a highly likely scenario I think about, and how I would react.

On an ethical level, I would be required by law to report to the authorities if the client was going to commit suicide, but otherwise, I would also be required to discourage thoughts of suicide.

On a personal level, I do not agree it is ethical to stop someone from committing suicide. Everyone's level of pain tolerance is different, and no one standard can apply to everyone. On a similar subject, plenty of people have gone through emotionally traumatic experiences many of us couldn't begin to imagine. There are people in emotional and physical pain on a constant basis; forcing them to remain alive against their wishes is a form of torture. I can't, nor can anyone else, dictate how someone should live their life. Someone diagnosed as mentally ill to the point they can't make rational decisions shouldn't be allowed to commit suicide; it would be like giving the responsibility to join the military to a 4 year-old child.

I think it's sad, and I would try to talk with family or friends who think about suicide, but if someone wants to commit suicide, they will find a way.

I simply reject the need to impose my morality on other people.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. u gota a point

I simply reject the need to impose my morality on other people.

I'm going to go murder my family, cut them up into little bits, burn them, and bury the bones. Then I'm going to take all the money in the house, take the car, go hire a prostitute, throw a few molotov ****tails at a gay pride parade, and then jump off Golden Gate bridge.

You say "Oh sure man, whatever floats your boat, I mean you're so stressed that living is pointless, so why not go with a *BANG*?".

Its absurd. You're preaching moral relativism, I recommend that you do some deep thinking, esp. since you are a psychologist, who is supposed to help people.

You are a Christian, My statement was in response to what you said about suffering.

Catholicism teaches that we must suffer like Christ if we are to rise like Him to eternal glory. No Cross, no Crown.

This post has been edited by Rex_Tremendae: Jun 24 2009, 03:56 PM

i think that ur one crazy gyal and shaitaan is making you think of things which shudnt be thought of
Allah swt forbidds us to commit suicide and it is haraam we shudnt even be thinkin like that

firstly we ALWAYS have a purpose in life just coz things dont always go right in life it dosnt mean anything its just a test for you and life is a test ontop of that Allah swt dint send u to earth just to come and fullfill ur desires and then when the going gets tough end it thats not how it is we ALWAYYYYYYYYYYYYS have a purpose in life to worship Allah till we die NOTHINGS GONNA CHAMGE THAT

ill give u an eg of this man : this man wnated to commit suicide for some reason so he went to a building to jump off when he got to the top he DID jump off BUT when he got to the ground he dint hit it he fell on someone walking on the pavement so the guy walking died not the man who wanted to die, did u get that

ILL EXPLAIN THE MEANING TO THIS IS THAT aLLAH KNOWS WHEN WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE WHAT DATE WHAT TIME HE ONLY KNOWS SO WHEN THE MAN JUMPED IT WASNT HIS DATE OR TIME SO HE DINT DIE BUT THE GUY WALKING IT WAS WRITTEN FOR HIM TO DIE AT THAT TIME AND DATE SO HE DID.

BASICALLY UNTILL OUR TIME COMES WE SHOULD WORSHIP ALLAH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THAT ALLAH SWT ENTERS US TO JANNAH THATS WHAT WE SHUD BE WORRIED ABOUT IF THE PROPHET WAS WORRIED BEING THIS GREAT THEN WERE JUST ORDINARY PEOPLE WE SHUD BE MORE WORRIED AND TRY AND PRAY AS MUCH AS WE CAC

I'm going to go murder my family, cut them up into little bits, burn them, and bury the bones. Then I'm going to take all the money in the house, take the car, go hire a prostitute, throw a few molotov ****tails at a gay pride parade, and then jump off Golden Gate bridge.

You say "Oh sure man, whatever floats your boat, I mean you're so stressed that living is pointless, so why not go with a *BANG*?".

Its absurd. You're preaching moral relativism, I recommend that you do some deep thinking, esp. since you are a psychologist, who is supposed to help people.

There's no need to insult me or use strawman arguments, please refrain from it. I did not say murder is acceptable when I said it is unethical to force someone who wishes very intently to die to remain alive (not only being extremely dangerous and ultimately lethal to others); please don't falsely imply that.

i think that ur one crazy gyal and shaitaan is making you think of things which shudnt be thought of
Allah swt forbidds us to commit suicide and it is haraam we shudnt even be thinkin like that

firstly we ALWAYS have a purpose in life just coz things dont always go right in life it dosnt mean anything its just a test for you and life is a test ontop of that Allah swt dint send u to earth just to come and fullfill ur desires and then when the going gets tough end it thats not how it is we ALWAYYYYYYYYYYYYS have a purpose in life to worship Allah till we die NOTHINGS GONNA CHAMGE THAT

ill give u an eg of this man : this man wnated to commit suicide for some reason so he went to a building to jump off when he got to the top he DID jump off BUT when he got to the ground he dint hit it he fell on someone walking on the pavement so the guy walking died not the man who wanted to die, did u get that

ILL EXPLAIN THE MEANING TO THIS IS THAT aLLAH KNOWS WHEN WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE WHAT DATE WHAT TIME HE ONLY KNOWS SO WHEN THE MAN JUMPED IT WASNT HIS DATE OR TIME SO HE DINT DIE BUT THE GUY WALKING IT WAS WRITTEN FOR HIM TO DIE AT THAT TIME AND DATE SO HE DID.

BASICALLY UNTILL OUR TIME COMES WE SHOULD WORSHIP ALLAH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THAT ALLAH SWT ENTERS US TO JANNAH THATS WHAT WE SHUD BE WORRIED ABOUT IF THE PROPHET WAS WORRIED BEING THIS GREAT THEN WERE JUST ORDINARY PEOPLE WE SHUD BE MORE WORRIED AND TRY AND PRAY AS MUCH AS WE CAC

I don't share your beliefs, but if you have a sense of purpose and meaning to your life through your faith, good for you, and I hope it makes you a better individual.


This post has been edited by Leoben: Jun 25 2009, 11:55 PM

My example was too extreme. But that doesn't change the fact that your preaching moral relativism and that you should be anywhere but studying to be a psychologist.