Are You Religious Or Spiritual? Options

[truth-finder]

Are you a religious person or a spiritual person? A religious person is the one who is concerned about only keeping religious rules, rituals and traditions out of duty, out of fear of punishment. To them these formalities are more important than human lives. Duty and fear of punishment are the driving force of their actions. Guilt and fear are their suppressed and hidden emotions. To them the heart of matter is the matter of religion. But a spiritual person is the one who is concerned about having a loving relationship with the Creator of the universe and his very own soul. To them human lives are the most precious thing in the universe except the Creator, because He created them. Love and thanks are the driving force of their actions. Freedom and joy are their overflowing and open emotions. To them the heart of the matter is the matter of heart. Are you religious or spiritual?

I hope I have not criticized negatively your religion and scripture in order to convey my message, because I did not mention them. This is the way we are supposed to show our courtesy and respect for other people, namely, just making the point as it is without attacking other religions and their scripture negatively. If you want to ask me a question privately, please send me your email at truthfinder0@gmail.com. I promise to keep it very confidential.

This post has been edited by truth-finder: Oct 10 2009, 07:49 PM

[Binty]

I am spiritual, in all honesty. It also enables me to act upon rituals more comfortably.

[NOSHADYLADY4]

Hello:

I consider myself spiritually religious. A mixture of both. You can't successfully believe, praise the Creator, pray, walk the walk of religion without a tad of both. The spiritual compliments my religion. I do not do my religious duty in fear nor out of fear. But I do believe that if a person believes in God, they will have a bit of fear of not pleasing Him, they would fear sinning and associating partners with one's Creator.

My Islamic obligation is more than just the rituals of the religion. I have to live it as well. My religion is my way of life, equipped with moral codes, values, religious and spiritual traditions. If the spiritual side is lacking, the connection with the Creator is gone. If the religious side is lacking, your prayers, duties, and rituals will suffer.

The combination of the spiritual and religious allows me to be well rounded. They each nuture the soul and body in their own way. Together they bring me closer to my Creator. Verily Allah Ta'ala says:

Al' Asr (Time Through the Ages)

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1. By (the Token of) Time (Through the Ages),
2. Verily Man Is in Loss
3. Except such as have Faith, And do righteous deeds, And (join togather) In the mutual Teachings of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

[truth-finder]

Dear the replier

Thank you very much for your comment on my post. You seem to be the most spiritual Muslim I have met and talked to. Most Muslims I know appear very religious, full of religious zeal and vigor. Although the following writing may not be very relevant to your case, I will enclose it for your reading. You are very welcome to share your comment on it as well.


When I talk to Muslims and read their articles, I notice their surprising lack of spirituality. They see things only in a low dimensional way just like young children. They believe that a great person should always have a great (political and military) power. Otherwise he cannot be great. This is just a one-dimensional way of thinking. Due to this wrong perception, they have great difficulty in understanding who Jesus Christ really is. They argue that Jesus cannot be God because he was so powerless and weak, instead of being a great military and political leader who would conquer and destroy the enemy with mighty power. This is only what 4-year-old boys think and believe a great leader is. The greatness of Jesus is not in such a political and military power, but in his own sacrificial love to forgive sins of all human beings. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28) Visible political and military power cannot save our souls from the eternal condemnation of God caused by our sins. Instead of pouring his wrath and curse of punishment on his children because of our sins, God chose to pour them on Jesus to spare us from the punishment. “Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished.” (Exodus 34:7) “For the wages of sin is death.” (Romans 6:23) Christ in our place, as our substitute, paid the penalty for our sins, providing us the way to eternal life that is reserved only for those whose sin is cleared forever. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (as a sacrifice for our sins) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Jesus did what no human beings ever could do, because he was both God and man. Jesus is the only hope of all human beings who want to restore an intimate loving relationship with God and to meet their Creator face to face without being eternally punished, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”(John 14:6).

[NOSHADYLADY4]

Thank you truth-finder!

As for the reading:

I feel that most people whether muslim, christian, Jew, etc have lost their sense of direction when it comes to their religion. They run slack in thier obligations and practices. Most do not take punishment and hell seriously.

I do not agree with most of the reading. I used to be christian and believed in these ideals and ideologies. Then I learned the truth of just who God was and who Jesus was not.

The greatness of Jesus(Isa) is in his love and dedication to mankind. His ability to preach Allah's word even in the midst of adversity, his magnificent and truly miraculous birth and his patience when he called upon Allah for anything.

I do not believe that he died for my sins, because only Allah has the power to forgive me of all my sins. If he died for all of our sins, why then is there still sin in the world?

[O' My servants! You commit mistakes (sins) by night and day and I forgive all sins. So ask forgiveness from Me I shall forgive you.]


[53. Say: O' My servants who have transgressed against themselves (by committing sins)! Do not despair of the Mercy of Allah, indeed Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(39:53) ]

[Prophet Muhammad said:

The Almighty Allah says: Whoever comes with a good deed, his reward will be ten times like it or more. And whoever comes with a bad deed, his recompense will be only one like it, or I shall forgive him. And whoever draws close to Me a hand's span, I shall draw close to him an arm's length. And whoever draws close to Me an arm's length, I shall draw close to him a fathom's length. And whoever comes to Me walking, I shall go to him running. And whoever faces Me with sins as great as the earth, but without worshipping anything along with or instead of Me, I shall meet him with forgiveness as great as that.
(Saheeh Muslim, Book 35, Number 6499) ]


BIBLE:
a.(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
b.(Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Those who are not saved will be thrown into the fire of hell for eternity. (Matthew 5:29)

It is impossible in this life to have any assurance of salvation. Good works will be measured against bad on the scales of justice on judgment day. No one knows what their outcome is going to be. Only God knows this.

There is so much to comment on this reading but I will stop for now.! Perhaps in the next comment!

[truth-finder]

Dear Muslim friend

Thanks for your reply. The divinity of Jesus seems to be one of the central issues in our conversations. Recently I had a chance to talk to a few Muslims about this issue and enclose one of the writings for your reading. Again you are very welcome to share your comments with me.

You believe that Jesus lived a perfect sinless life before God and men, and revealed himself to people just as He really is. You have absolutely nothing to accuse Jesus of. Do you know what “sin” Jesus was accused of for death sentence on the cross by the religious experts in the laws of Moses and religious leaders at the time? Blasphemy! These are only three of many instances where they tried to persecute and kill Jesus. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:33) “Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy” (Matthews 26:65) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Luke 5:21) Please remember these religious leaders knew the laws of Moses much better than you. By the implication of what Jesus said and more importantly what Jesus did, they knew very well that Jesus was claiming to be God. If you deny what Jesus revealed himself to be, namely, He is both God and man, you would be 21-th century Jewish teachers of the laws and Jewish leaders chanting for his death on the cross. You would be an accomplice with the Jewish religious leaders responsible for the death of Jesus, because he was sentenced to death for this very reason. On which side do you want to be, on the side of Jesus or on the side of the Jewish religious leaders at the time? Let us see Jesus as He really is instead of using the familiar arguments, “This part of the Bible was corrupted!” or “A capital letter God is sometimes used interchangeably by a small letter god that refers to human beings!”

The dual nature of Jesus is the inevitable conclusion after reading and pondering the whole Bible with open mind, namely, discarding your own pre-programmed ideas of God. If you read only certain verses that are selectively chosen by your religious leaders, Jesus appears only a human being. This is the danger of misguiding the complete picture by a directed intention. The dual (God and man) nature of Jesus is well understood from the Bible (for instance, the book of John) by giving up putting God into the box of your incomplete wrong ideas that are educated to believe by your religious leaders. The infinite God cannot be defined by a few lines of your religious rules and traditions. In fact this is one of the greatest mistakes you make, namely, not seeing God as He really is but seeing God as a few lines of your religious rules and traditions are! The infinite God waits to be explored and known more by His creatures. The infinitely gracious God is not offended by honest questions and doubt of His tiny creatures. He is not like a brutal dictator who does not even allow different views, who does not even permit honest questions, who is easily offended by different opinions, and who threatens people with fear of punishment, and who waits to punish people whenever they disobey him. My God revealed through Jesus Christ is the exact opposite to the brutal dictator. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28) “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (as a sacrifice for our sins) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16) . Do your God and prophet give their lives to love and save human beings from the judgment caused by our sins?

[NOSHADYLADY4]

Good read!

First, the whole of the bible is not about Jesus. Having read it many times over, I still come to the same conclusion the Jesus was a Prophet, and a word from God leading to a miraculous birth! Once I learned this, I found his nature to be sinless, and clear.

Even before Islam, I found the bible fallible. Islam came along and pointed out many more specifics. Allah is never confined to a box, better yet, He is not even confined into His own creation. I do not see Allah as just rules, rituals or traditions, He is much much more, I live by the mercy and faith of my Lord and Creator. I study from the religious leaders but I also have a mind of my own and can actually read for myself.

Allah is never offended, about what His creation says or does. But His creation is often offended by what He tells them to do and not do. Many are offended by others when they cannot have their way, or make others believe as they do. He is never offended by what His creatures say because He knows what is in their hearts and what comes out of their mouths before they do.

People see Allah as a brutal dictator because they want to be able to do what they want without just cause and punishment. That is why they rely on Jesus "dying" for their sins so they won't have to give account. What a cop out! And the last time I checked, your bible also says that God punishes man as well, hello! Read your book!

Qur'an:["Verily, for the Righteous are gardens of Delight, in the Presence of their Lord. Shall We then treat the people of Faith like the people of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge you?" (68:34-36) ]


Allah is one God. We all worship the same God.

["God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: For then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others." (23:91)

And Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin." (21:22)]

["He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (59:22-24) ]

The Prophet as a mercy for mankind:
"And We have not sent you except as a mercy to mankind"
(Qur'an Al-Anbiyah 21:107)

"Verily Allah sends blessings upon the prophet, and his angels ask Allah to bless him. Oh you who have believed ask Allah to send blessings upon him and greet him with peace" (Qur'an Al-Ahzab 33:56)

"O' prophet. Verily We have sent you as a witness and a bearer of glad tidings and a warner, and as one who invites to Allah by His Permission, and as a lamp spreading light" (Qur'an Al-Ahzab 33:45-46)

"Indeed in the messenger of Allah you have the most beautiful pattern of conduct for him who hopes in Allah and the last day, and remembers Allah much" (Qur'an Al-Ahzab 33:21)


AS FOR JESUS

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son." (4:171)

Allah has given this world all it needs to survive, thrive and prepare for death. He does not have to answer to any of us nor does He have to sacrifice himself for His creation. He never told us to sacrifice anyone to save ourselves. Our sins are ours to reap the punishment for.

A short reading:
"Christ could not have offered an infinite sacrifice for sins since Christ, according to the Gospel narration, suffered only a short time. The most intense suffering for a limited period of time is as nothing compared with the eternal suffering to which man is liable. "IF" it is said that the suffering is greater in so far as he who suffers it is infinite, so also the power to endure the suffering is greater. But even the suffering of an "infinite" being cannot take the place of eternal suffering. "If" it is granted that Christ did offer atonement, then it is impossible to speak of the forgiveness of God or of man's gratitude to Him for granting His forgiveness, since a man who was baptised in the name of Christ automatically acquired atonement for his sins before God could remit the penalty for them. To follow the doctrine means that God's Law is no longer binding on His servants since the penalty for all his sins has already been paid in full. Therefore a man is at full liberty to do what he likes. Since the offering of Christ was absolute and infinite, it included all. Therefore, universal salvation must follow. So in other words, God has no right to add any further conditions to what He requires of man." This is some piece of head work on mankind!

KJV: "For he that is dead is freed from sin". Roman 6:7

{So why is there still sin for death(not Jesus) to free a person?"} Hmmmm

[truth-finder]

Dear Muslim friend

Thanks for your kind reply. The divinity of Jesus still seems to be the main issue in our conversations. Based on the Bible we are firmly convinced that Jesus is both God and man, not only God or not only man, but both. I do not really mind what Jesus was called, named or titled such as Son of God, or son of God, or Son of god, or son of god. Name or title is not my real interest. I am concerned about the implication of what Jesus said and more importantly what Jesus did for all human beings. Here are a few of many instances where Jesus revealed who he really was. There are only two possibilities for his true identity: (1) He was both God and man, or (2) He was a crazy man with a mental disease. Please do not use the familiar argument “This part of the Bible was corrupted!” when you are run out of argument. Now I am tired of it.

"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. (John 8:57-59)

"I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:30-33)

"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask." Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" "Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world." (John 11:21-27)

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid." Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. (John 8:12-14)