Someone Please Answer Me This... Options

Always I ask this question to every Christian I come across, never do I get an answer that actually makes sense.

Is Jesus God, or is he His son?

The bible makes reference to him as the son of God and also as God Himself. But which is it?

As far as I am concerned, you cannot be both.

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your question. I have already answered a similar question in another thread. For your convenience I post it here again. Relationally (not biologically) Jesus is the Son to the Father. Jesus and the Father are the different revelations of the same God, the Creator of the universe.

We worship only one God or His different revelation as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Please do not be confused. Do you not agree that the almighty God could reveal Himself or His presence to human beings in a hundred different ways if He wants? Do you limit God’s ability and power?

Muslim readers like to make the following argument: 1 God (the Father)+1 God (the Son)+1 God (the Father Spirit) = 3 Gods. Therefore Christians worship three Gods. Certainly they are confused about deity and non-deity. They apply non-deity mathematics to deity. We cannot compare deity with non-deity. Deity is eternal, while non-deity is mortal. Deity is perfect, while non-deity is imperfect. Deity is pure, while non-deity is impure. The difference between deity and non-deity is like sky and land, and in fact even more. Deity is like infinity, while non-deity is like finite. For non-deity mathematics, 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. But deity mathematics, infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity, not 3 infinities. There is no such thing as 3 infinities.

I ask Muslim brothers to pray earnestly to your God (Allah) to reveal Jesus in your dream or vision if He is really the Son of God or not. I believe this is the best way to know the true nature of Jesus.

Thank you for your reply

You suggest that Jesus is a "revelation" of God. We believe that about Muhammad yet we view him very differently as you do with Jesus.

Muhammad is the sign and mercy of God, as was Jesus. However you apply divinity to Jesus? That is what I do not agree with. You are right that God shows Himself in many ways, but I cannot believe that Jesus is the living God. He was the B to get A to C

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your reply. Although I appreciate your view, Jesus is the living God whether you believe it or not. That is the natural conclusion after reading and pondering the implication of what Jesus said and more importantly what He did. You are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. But it does not change the fact that Jesus has both human and divine natures.

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your reply. Although I appreciate your view, Jesus is the living God whether you believe it or not. That is the natural conclusion after reading and pondering the implication of what Jesus said and more importantly what He did. You are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. But it does not change the fact that Jesus has both human and divine natures.

So like a semi god?

Then what can we call Jesus? A human or a God?

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your comment. Of course Jesus is God, who took a human form or revealed Himself in a human form. But human being can NOT take a God form or reveal themselves in a God form. It is impossible.

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your comment. Of course Jesus is God, who took a human form or revealed Himself in a human form. But human being can NOT take a God form or reveal themselves in a God form. It is impossible.

So God is His own son? That is still what I dont understand. If Jesus is the human form of God, then what is the need for this trinity?

It really depends what the Christian believes. Not all Christians believe the same thing, and some believe radically different things. If you think that Jesus is the incarnation of God, literally, meaning that God put himself in a human body, then you can believe that.

Some groups though, believe that Jesus is the Son of God, meaning simply that he was placed in the womb of the Virgin Mary by God's command to be born to spread the word of God, and to, later- die to save humanity from its sins. (Which is mostly ceremonial, just proving that 'God so loved the world, that he sent his only son' to die on the cross for mankind) Thats why you might hear of being, 'washed in the blood of the lamb'- meaning, do you accept Jesus to be your savior (having died on the cross so that man can be forgiven of their sins)

Then, from there, there are more differences in the different groups of Christianity. Do you think that, since Jesus died for your sins, you need only to take him as your savior to be permitted to heaven? Or, do you believe that that act just gave mankind the ability to be able to pray to ask forgiveness of their sins?

So, really, everything is up for the person in question to decide.

Would that be the only reason they would refer him as the son of God? The fact that Jesus had no biological father?

Hi Killed Bill

Thanks for your reply. Of course you should not think the Father has the biological Son. It would be absurd to say that Jesus was born as a result of physical relationship between God and a woman. Jesus (the Word) was with the Father in the beginning. Jesus already existed long before he became flesh. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” (John 1:1-3) Here the Word means Jesus. When the Bible calls Jesus as the Son, it refers to the relationship between the Father and the Son, not a biological one.

Do you think that, since Jesus died for your sins, you need only to take him as your savior to be permitted to heaven? Or, do you believe that that act just gave mankind the ability to be able to pray to ask forgiveness of their sins?
My answer: Yes, taking him as your Savior is enough. As soon as you receive Jesus as the Savior and Lord in your heart, you would be changed dramatically inside out
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Hi FiziKx

I do not disagree with you. Receiving Jesus as the Savior and Lord is like being adopted onto the family of God from the enemy of God. Although we become the children of God by the sacrificial love of Jesus on the cross, much of our old self is not compatible with the new status. In other words, we still carry much of our sinful natures. We become more mature by following the word of God. Along the way we may fall due to our weakness to temptation. When it happens, we confess our sin and move on with hope and joy

no

This post has been edited by Breeze: Aug 17 2011, 09:08 AM

Hi Ms. JJ

Thanks for your story. I appreciate it greatly. If I am not mistaken, I posted the following writing somewhere whch I do not know. But it does exlpain the origin of sin in relation to Satan. You are very welcome to share your comment with me and other readers. Thank you.

When God created the world, it was perfect. There was no sin, no death, and no tragedy. Adam and Eve were given full freedom to do whatever they wanted, but God wanted to make sure that He was the Creator and they (Adam and Even) were still his creatures, thus giving them one and only restriction, “But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die” (Genesis 2:17). But they gave in to the temptation of the Satan, “you will be like God” (Genesis 3:5). In effect they said to God, “God, we want to be the Creator ourselves. We do not need you anymore. We ask you to leave our lives now and never return!” When Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, sin entered the world for the first time. Death, disease, pain, and senseless tragedies were the result. They are with us still. The separation from God is nothing but the curse for both mankind and the earth (Genesis 3:17-18), which was caused by our walking away from the Source of blessing and protection, rather than by God’s punishment. Though God was pushed out of our lives, He still loves and cares us who are created as the focus of his love. There is nothing more important to our Creator than for every one of us to have as much happiness and fulfillment as humanly possible. When bad things happen, God still feels our pain, is very present with us, and works to bring out the best in a bad situation.

Because of our sin and rebellion against the Creator, the loving relationship between God and human beings was broken and a huge gap of valley was created in between. The enormous gap of valley is like a Grand Canyon, 10 km wide and 10 km deep. In reality it is much much wider and deeper. Indeed our rebellion against the Creator (“God, we want to be the Creator ourselves. We do not need you anymore. We ask you to leave our lives now and never return!”) is a really really serious sin, more precisely speaking, the greatest sin ever possible to the Creator. Just performing religious rituals or duties (even with repentance) is not enough and is not even close to undo the greatest humiliation done to God! Something dramatic and amazing event should happen to make a way that would connect again the huge valley of separation. God has bridged the gulf which separates us from God by sending his son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place in order to pay the penalty for our sins. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28) And he invites us to the wonderful gift of eternal life, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (as a sacrifice for our sins) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). And he points us the way to go, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Jesus Christ is the way to restore the broken relationship with God.

Death, disease, pain, and senseless tragedies will happen again and again in the future, until we are completely returned and united with God again, the Source of blessing and protection. I may die tomorrow due to some unexpected accident or natural disaster or disease. You may have some loved ones who have been hurt or died due to a senseless accident, for which you may harbour bitterness and resentment toward God. We need to comfort and help those who suffer from the tragedies as much as we can. But when Jesus Christ returns as the King of kings and the Lord of lords someday, he will build a new heaven and a new earth where we will live forever with no tear, no pain and no death “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea” (Revelation 21:1) “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:4)

Oh wait i think the Muslims believe in the return of Jesus as well.

is there any wise christiant who can answer us about those questions :

A Poem h, Christ worshipers!

(by Ibn Al Qayyim Al-Jawzyya Death : 751 AH(1349-1350) Medieval era)
Oh, Christ worshipers! We want an answer to our question from your wise.

If the Lord was murdered by some people’s act…what sort of god is this?

We wonder! Was He pleased by what they did Him? If yes,
blessed be they..they achieved the pleasure of His

But if He was discontented….this means their power subjugated His!!

Was the whole entity left without a Sustainer… so who answered the prayers?

Were the heavens vacated…when He laid under the ground somewheres?

Were all the worlds left without a God…to manage while His hands were nailed?

Why did not the angles help Him when they heard him while he wailed?

How could the rods stand to bear the True Lord when He was fastened

How could the iron reach Him and His body pinioned?

How could His enemies’ hands reach Him and slap His rear

And was Christ revived by himself…or the Reviver was another god?

What a sight it is!A grave that enclosed a god!
What’s more weird is the belly that had Him in it!

He stayed there for nine months in utter darkness…fed by blood!

Then he got out of the womb as a small baby,
weak and gaping to be breastfed!

He ate and drank, and did what that naturally resulted in. 1
Is this a god??!!

High Exalted be Allah above the lies of Christians
All of them will be held accountable for their libels

Oh cross worshipers…for what reason is it exalted
and blamed who rejects it?

Is it not the logic to break and burn it along with the one who innovated it?2

Since the Lord was crucified on it…and his hands were fastened to it?

That is really a cursed cross to carry…so discard it
Don’t kiss it!3

The Lord was abused on it…and you adore it?
So you are one of His enemies!!

If you extol it because it carried the Lord of the worlds

why don’t you prostrate yourself and worship graves,

since the grave contained your god in it?

So, Christ worshiper, open your eyes,
this is what the matter is all about. 4

Footnotes
1- Urination and defecation
2- Paul of Tarsus. Founder of Trinity faith.
3- Don't glorify it
4- Since you, as a Christian abhor the idea of worshipping a grave,
how come you find it o.k. to worship the cross??????

Always I ask this question to every Christian I come across, never do I get an answer that actually makes sense.

Is Jesus God, or is he His son?

The bible makes reference to him as the son of God and also as God Himself. But which is it?

As far as I am concerned, you cannot be both.

Jesus was not God. God is only one and that is ALLAH. In Quran it is clearly said that ALLAH has created jesus and he is the one who took jesus alive and send his substitute to people.

If you can access You tube I hope this helps. Very clear explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YamAD7Uhmc...1BB&index=1

I just wanted to point something out and something i always found interesting... is that the ideology christians have for Jesus/god, etc is very similar to what many Hindus believe. For example, it may appear that Hindus worship many gods, and this is how many Hindus believe as well, but if you really look at it... say... Krishna, Rama are really just avatars or incarnations of Vishnu. Some sects view Vishnu as the supreme God. Some forms of Hinduism see Vishnu as one of 5 "forms" of God with Ganesha, etc. So it appears very monotheistic at its core when you think of it this way and I believe it is just as monotheistic as Christianity is. Anyway I don't want to say too mucb because my knowledge of HInduism is very limited as its a complex religion with many different belief systems and I think its hard to characterize one universal way that all Hindus believe. But at least in this sort of thinking I always find Christianity and HInduism to be on the same level of monotheism. I think that thought upsets many Christians but at least from an unbiased, outside perspective its always what I feel

Maybe I'll start a thread on this because I always thought this was an interesting comparison.

This post has been edited by Nazia1987: Sep 10 2010, 06:04 AM

Christians don't worship the cross, the cross is a symbol of the religion. I can't find answers to any of my questions concerning the religion, and I was raised a christian. Oh, some try very hard to answer but the answers never feel like answers to me. I guess that's a reason why I want to convert (revert?! ) to Islam. Islam makes so much more sense to me.

For those of you who didn't watch the you tube here is what it said.

Basic definition of trinity.

Within the one Being that is God, There exits eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

A vital distinction

"Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit."

Being and Person are different things: Being is what makes something what it is, Person is what makes someone who they are.

The Most common Misunderstanding

The trinity is not saying that there are three Beings who are one Being, nor three Persons who are one Person. One Being, eternal, and unlimited, shared by three divine Persons, Father, son, and Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps. A true unbiased scholar is one who shows a fair argument for all religions.

For those of you who didn't watch the you tube here is what it said.

Basic definition of trinity.

Within the one Being that is God, There exits eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

A vital distinction

"Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit."

Being and Person are different things: Being is what makes something what it is, Person is what makes someone who they are.

The Most common Misunderstanding

The trinity is not saying that there are three Beings who are one Being, nor three Persons who are one Person. One Being, eternal, and unlimited, shared by three divine Persons, Father, son, and Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps. A true unbiased scholar is one who shows a fair argument for all religions.

I just wanted to point something out and something i always found interesting... is that the ideology christians have for Jesus/god, etc is very similar to what many Hindus believe. For example, it may appear that Hindus worship many gods, and this is how many Hindus believe as well, but if you really look at it... say... Krishna, Rama are really just avatars or incarnations of Vishnu. Some sects view Vishnu as the supreme God. Some forms of Hinduism see Vishnu as one of 5 "forms" of God with Ganesha, etc. So it appears very monotheistic at its core when you think of it this way and I believe it is just as monotheistic as Christianity is. Anyway I don't want to say too mucb because my knowledge of HInduism is very limited as its a complex religion with many different belief systems and I think its hard to characterize one universal way that all Hindus believe. But at least in this sort of thinking I always find Christianity and HInduism to be on the same level of monotheism. I think that thought upsets many Christians but at least from an unbiased, outside perspective its always what I feel

Maybe I'll start a thread on this because I always thought this was an interesting comparison.

I would disagree. Hindus believe everything is part of the one God. The table is God the car is god everything. Christians do not believe that idea. Here is an explanation of trinity.

For those of you who didn't watch the you tube here is what it said.

Basic definition of trinity.

Within the one Being that is God, There exits eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

A vital distinction

"Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit."

Being and Person are different things: Being is what makes something what it is, Person is what makes someone who they are.

The Most common Misunderstanding

The trinity is not saying that there are three Beings who are one Being, nor three Persons who are one Person. One Being, eternal, and unlimited, shared by three divine Persons, Father, son, and Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps. A true unbiased scholar is one who shows a fair argument for all religions.