"death To America", A common theme Options

Let me start by saying that I am an agnostic, but I have been on this earth for 58 years and have never heard this happen from any Religion but one.

Chant in the street an declare thing like:

"Death to America"
"Death to Bush"
"Death to Israel"
"Death to Rushdie"
"Death to Van Gogh"

and so on...


Why don't other religions do this after people or beliefs of the religion have been wronged? Are they more righteous?

oh please

and then the guy says Americas not just attacking Islam.

Your not going to touch people with pathetic pompous attempts like this patriotic American.

Hmm...tell me where else does it happen in the world where houses are razed to the ground by bulldozers? Women raped by soldiers, forced to strip and be humiliated even they are not raped? The elderly killed, children being tortured? None other than by the USA and Israel!!!

As for Rushdie and Van Gogh, we Muslims don't insult Jesus or Moses or David, or anybody else. They're our Prophets too. If you go to any Muslim country, save the most secular and American-influenced countries, you won't find any of this sh!t. It's only in your culture. Look again you guys, and you'll see the Truth.

May Allaah swt guide us all.... Inshallah Inshallah.

oh please

and then the guy says Americas not just attacking Islam.

Your not going to touch people with pathetic pompous attempts like this patriotic American.

Is it that obvious I am talking about Islam?

I am serious... honestly. I am trying to understand.

Why does the "True Religion" do this, the "Religion of Peace", but the other, not so peaceful and truthful religions don't do this. I never see this happen in the streets of America. Actually, even Muslims don't do this in America. Is it more a cultural thing or is it regional?

Please, I don't mean to offend... I am a coureous non-believer who may look for a path to God one day... help me understand, please.

Think about it... Islam has many faces. Take Somolia for example. They are 100% Muslim there, yet violence is everywhere in their land. They attacked and killed a Christian Nun who was there for over 30 years helping the poor. They are killing each other everyday.

Some sects in Africa cut the clitoris from a woman, but most Muslims find this appalling.
Some believe you still have hormones in your body when you go the heaven, so there sexual desires will be satisfied with many virgins. Sex in heaven? For what purpose?
How would a wife fell about this? What if she died with her husband? He gets virgins, what does she get. Where does she go while he is having sex with virgins? Do Muslim women ask these questions?

Wahhabi
Sharia law

Was is the differance between these? Do they all follow the same Quran'?

I am truely tring to understand, but sometimes the questions are blunt and I am sure difficult to answer to.

Perhaps I should not be asking these questions of a woman. If I have offended you I am sorry. Would it be best if I asked these questions of a man?

If these things are not true... please forgive me

Hmm...tell me where else does it happen in the world where houses are razed to the ground by bulldozers? Women raped by soldiers, forced to strip and be humiliated even they are not raped? The elderly killed, children being tortured? None other than by the USA and Israel!!!

How about Somolia?

Terrible things happen during war. I am not sure I believe all the things you list here, but even after 9/11 you did not see Americans in the streets chanting Death to Osama, or Islam, or anyone else.

Would the Israelis/Palestinian situation exist if their neighbors would have accepted the UN resolution 60 years ago giving them statehood? The Palestinian people have suffered so much, for so long, for many reasons, not all because of Israel. Curropt and greedy leadership was also a factor. When will Hamas decide that it is time to negotiate so the people of Palestine can start on a road to normal life?

As for Rushdie and Van Gogh, we Muslims don't insult Jesus or Moses or David, or anybody else. They're our Prophets too. If you go to any Muslim country, save the most secular and American-influenced countries, you won't find any of this sh!t. It's only in your culture. Look again you guys, and you'll see the Truth.

I have read this over three times... I don't understand what you are saying.
But if you are saying that the west insults Islam, but Islam never insults western religions.... wow, that would be a stretch.

May Allaah swt guide us all.... Inshallah Inshallah.

May love follow and guide you

You're asking questions, but they aren't too willing to answer. What does that mean?

You're asking questions, but they aren't too willing to answer. What does that mean?

The questions being asked are all meant to degrade, belittle, and show a complete lack of respect for any Muslim reading these questions. They are the stock and trade of the killers who do everything in their power to destroy the image, and heart of any Muslim who reads such ugly ideas, that have nothing to do with Islam.

What does it mean that killers hang out in this forum, killers of all peacful feelings between Muslims and good hearted people who just want to get along with each other?

What drives such individuals? Why do they feel the need to say such things in public places like this one? What are the real reasons they feel that they need to attack Isalm, and anyone that is willing to stand up for it in a public place?

Could this be a war on Islam? Could this be a war on Muslms? Could the people here that I have read their ideas, and their interactions with Mulsims be really out to do the kind of damage they are inflicting upon Isalm and the hearts of the Muslims here?

Do they have any of the mirror neurons in thier brains that are required for empathy, or understanding what they are doing to the hearts of those who Love God, and Love the Quran?

What will it take for the people here to take a look in the mirror, and realize that it is them that needs to change before there will ever be any peace between them and Muslims?

What will it take for these people to stop hating Mulisms? Will it take them to feel what they are doing to the Muslims here? Will that stop them? Or will it take something more, like a direct act of God to punish these people from the crimes they are guilty of in places like this one... A heart attack perhaps after they read some post online, a slip and fall in the bathtub? Just what will it take to silence this ugly form of racism and hatred we find printed here?

Who will stop the rain?

"What does it mean that killers hang out in this forum, killers of all peacful feelings between Muslims and good hearted people who just want to get along with each other?"

I've yet to see any of these so-called 'killers' that hang out here. Patriot, if you're referring to him, is actually a fairly respectful guy to debate or discuss with. Not that I agree with all he says but he is no killer.

Who are those that ridicule those who stand up for Islam here? Who are those that have the need to consistantly question those who believe in God as is recorded in the Quran? Who are those that accuse those who claim to be Muslims? Why do they have such a deep rooted need? What is the force behind that need to shame Muslims for the sins of men and women that they have not even met? What is that force behind the need hold Mulsims to a standard that is higher than they themselves do not even come close to achiving? What feelings do these people get by asking questions or making statments that cast doubt on articles of faith? What is the opposite of faith? What is the end of of doubt? Is not death because of fear? Is not fear the way we die? So why are these killers of faith need to kill faith in others?

This post has been edited by Black-Wolf: Apr 26 2008, 02:44 AM

The questions being asked are all meant to degrade, belittle, and show a complete lack of respect for any Muslim reading these questions.

Whatever you have to make up in your mind to come up with some weak reason not to answer the questions.

But then we've went over all this with me.

You're asking questions, but they aren't too willing to answer. What does that mean?

It means the correct questions that don't be dared honestly answered were asked least the truth rears it's ugly head.

Jahz, Black-wolf, whatever you want to name yourself now,

Really? My, that says sumpin in itself now, doesn't it?

I am truely tring to understand, but sometimes the questions are blunt and I am sure difficult to answer to.

Difficult? Nah, don't think so.

How do Patriot? Lemme help you out here some, I've allready asked these questions...

http://muslimonline.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5379

I wish you the best of luck gettin answers. I got fairly far with these guys before they shut down. Maybe you should read that thread, learn from it and carry on from there. I actually got them to where they were blaming the Shi'ia Muslims.

They ain't as clever as they fancy themselves.

Best of luck.

Jahz, Black-wolf, whatever you want to name yourself now, you never answered the question. Where are these killers around here ey? I'd really like to see some, because in general there is a level of respect among the members here, no killers. To question something is not to kill it.

When will I begin to get answers for all of my questions? I see questions being answered by questions. Is it not justifiable to do the same? Why should I answer anyones questions that refuse to answer mine truthfully?

Do we really see honesty, and humbliness in the questions being asked by the non believers here of the believers? Do we see the honest seeking of the answers the believers have to offer, or do we see questions upon questions that have another more sinister aim at the heart?

Who are those that dis-respect Muslims here on this board by asking questions meant with malice and painting pictures of Muslims that blur the Millions upon Millions of good hearted Muslims that live their lives with respect toward others who believe in God?

Distorting the face of those who respect unbelievers who do not wage war of words or war of death and destruction? Those who patiently wait for the Judgment of God to come upon those who deserve the penalty of hell.


If the shoe fits they say what?


Only asking questions eh? some questions that are being asked, some questions indeed, and the fact of the matter is if those who asked these so called questions, were truthful with the seers, and the general public alike, who can see what is being really done by these questions, and understand very well the hidden intent behind the endless questions that have no serious merit in obtaining the information that is being asked on the surface, but have a more hidden sinister nature behind them to intimidate, divide and create chaos, meant to distort and disrupt those who honestly are asking genuine questions with the heart intent of finding out the real answers that the Muslims here have to offer.

Thus isn't this another front on the war on Islam that is being waged with "questions", instead of with bullets, bombs, physical death and destruction of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, cities, towns, settlements, and nations that we see on television and in the news every day? Only isn't this front more sinister than those that at least wear uniforms and face each other on the real battlefield? This is a battle field of the heart, where no one is really who or what their words say that they are, and have a more direct access deep into the minds and hearts living in their living rooms, bedrooms among their families and friends.

Isn't this battle being waged in this place a much more evil battle? A battle for the minds and hearts of those who read and expose themselves in a way that makes them vulnerable to those with the kind of intent we see here with the professed innocence of "only asking questions" hurt the Ummah deeply in a way only God can heal? Are these people really as innocent as what this poster claims to be? Or are there those on this forum just like so many like it that seek to destroy the hearts of Muslims?

So when will my questions begin to be answered? When will the Judgment of God come into this place, I plead with God that Justice will be delivered into place and every forum like it where we see those who are dedicated to waging a war upon the true of heart, without any thought, or remorse in the words that they write, and have malice in their hearts toward those that Love God.

I pray that weapons of words are manufactured to silence the war on my brothers and sisters in this and every religious forum on the Internet today. I pray that every Muslim here and everywhere becomes educated in this war on the hearts and minds of Muslims, and anyone that comes into places like this one.

I pray that those that have committed themselves to creating an environment for the honest understanding between humankind, will educate themselves in how to properly administer a forum, and execute fair justice in elimination of those like we see here waging war on the hearts and minds of innocent hearts. Would design forums that will permit the thread starters to monitor and delete posts that they feel are disruptive of the intent of the thread, and not leave this to a select few.

Would it not be a more peaceful experience, one that is fertile for the salvation of souls, if we did not see the kind of rhetorical, mean spirited endless questions meant for humiliation, intimidation, and the taking captive weak hearts and minds here in places like this?

This post has been edited by Black-Wolf: Apr 26 2008, 04:34 PM

When will I begin to get answers for all of my questions?

Then ask.

and humbliness in the questions being asked by the non believers here of the believers?

I'm the smartest man alive. What does humbleness have to do with a question? I see you're not so humble as to not demand how the non-believers can petition you. It's a forum slick, welcome to the real world.

Do you want to see the entire world under the Sharia?

Should Arab women be allowed to vote?

How much did you pay for a muffler?

Let me start by saying that I am an agnostic, but I have been on this earth for 58 years and have never heard this happen from any Religion but one.

Chant in the street an declare thing like:

"Death to America"
"Death to Bush"
"Death to Israel"
"Death to Rushdie"
"Death to Van Gogh"

and so on...


Why don't other religions do this after people or beliefs of the religion have been wronged? Are they more righteous?

Umm...you invade, you kill, and you don't expect to hear people wish death upon you?

I don't know how you came up with that "no one else does that" crap but its just that a load of bull.

Would you sit quietly while your people are being slaughtered?

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

This post has been edited by Al-Din'As-Darfur: Apr 26 2008, 07:25 PM

Why can't some serious changes be made on this forum to reduce this "noise" to a minimum and permit those who seriously desire to seek the answers that Muslims have to offer the ability to ask and get those answers without all the rhetoric?

I see that on other forums they are discussing ways to reduce or eliminate those with malice intent from destroying the peace that our Creator has promised us here.

Some of the ideas are these:

Have levels of freedom depending upon the number of posts made:

The newbie might have only one section available to them, and only certain
subjects will be permitted there.

The next level might gain more freedom to post in places where more sensitive
subjects would be permitted.

The next level might be a approval level based upon how they have done in the
lower levels of the permission structure.

More specifically have sections that are completely off limits to anyone except
those who profess Islam.

Something has to be done about this problem, and there are more than just me complaining about the same thing. I believe God will give us a answer soon.

I still like the idea of giving the thread starter power and responsibility over their threads, but all forums do not have this built into the capability of the software.

In any case, the day is coming where we will see an end to this madness, and the beginning of the forum to meet the expectations and promises they were designed to achieve...

Is it that obvious I am talking about Islam?

I am serious... honestly. I am trying to understand.

Why does the "True Religion" do this, the "Religion of Peace", but the other, not so peaceful and truthful religions don't do this. I never see this happen in the streets of America. Actually, even Muslims don't do this in America. Is it more a cultural thing or is it regional?

Are you stupid or just senile?

You say you never see it anywhere else, but have you truly ever looked?
Fox news isn't going to show you anything to the contrary but you have the Internet, you can easily google search a few terms and get your information.

You just love being close minded eh?

Please, I don't mean to offend... I am a coureous non-believer who may look for a path to God one day... help me understand, please.

Think about it... Islam has many faces. Take Somolia for example. They are 100% Muslim there, yet violence is everywhere in their land. They attacked and killed a Christian Nun who was there for over 30 years helping the poor. They are killing each other everyday.

My god...are you stupid?
I would post one of my sources here...but I found something from a source a close minded person such as yourself would appreciate.

Somalia was the first true Islamic state in a while. 99.9% muslim (excluding the U.S. supported leaders). Ethiopia created chaos. There was finally order when they had an Islamic government

YOU REALLY need to get out more...

The death of the Missionaries were because of the Ethiopian invasion, Somalia turned to Islam because of U.S. involvement.

The U.S. supported the Somali dictators, The Somali warlords and the Ethiopian imperialists.

Some sects in Africa cut the clitoris from a woman, but most Muslims find this appalling.

and this is about "death to america" how?

Circumcision has been around for millenia...I know your not going to say its just some muslim thing...

Some believe you still have hormones in your body when you go the heaven, so there sexual desires will be satisfied with many virgins. Sex in heaven? For what purpose?
How would a wife fell about this? What if she died with her husband? He gets virgins, what does she get. Where does she go while he is having sex with virgins? Do Muslim women ask these questions?

What was it you said to me? Pick up a quran? I do beleive you're in DIRE need of one right now. It will answer all of your question, a quick google search will provide you with the answers you seek.

Wahhabi
Sharia law

Was is the difference between these? Do they all follow the same Quran'?

Al Wahhab is one of the 99 names of god, it means bestower. If your talking about the Salafi movement in AL-Islam, the followers of Abdalwahhab then it is a group.

Sharay'ah is a vague term... Sharay'ah means the source...in a literally since it would be where the river forms, or where the stream begins. Sharay'ah is where Fiqh(law) is derived. In This Case Sharay'ah would mean, Quran, Hadith, Reason, and the will of the people.

I am truely tring to understand, but sometimes the questions are blunt and I am sure difficult to answer to.

More like, full of hate and bias...

Perhaps I should not be asking these questions of a woman. If I have offended you I am sorry. Would it be best if I asked these questions of a man?

If these things are not true... please forgive me

You seriously need to get out more man...
If you really want to know the answers to your questions, stop being lazy and google "Quran Browser".

Then ask.

Did you seriously just tell someone to "ask a question", Oh the Irony...

I'm the smartest man alive. What does humbleness have to do with a question? I see you're not so humble as to not demand how the non-believers can petition you. It's a forum slick, welcome to the real world.

Well being humble is the best way to get an answer to a question...thats simple etiquette.

If you act like you know everything then why would you ask a question in the first place???

Do you want to see the entire world under the Sharia?

I love it when you throw around terms you don't know the meaning too...

Personally I would...

Should Arab women be allowed to vote?

Whats with your fascination with arab women, Its getting creepy man...

How many times must we go over this, Under Islamic Law ALL women are allowed to vote? K?

You should post that in suggestions, but this is obviously a more free, "liberal" forum that welcomes all types so having such exclusivity contradicts the openness and welcoming nature of the forum.

It also chases away those who could give the forum depth of knowledge because they simply cannot stand to see Islam insulted.

Certainly there can be a balance between the two, if it is thought out properly and implemented effectively.

But is your forum not mine, however one day perhaps the realization may occur to you that the forum belongs to those who choose to camp out there, not just those who established it, or currently administer it.

I would hate to see someone like John to leave, you have nailed one of the most knowledgeable people that I have seen in a very long time come and join your forum.

Perhaps he has the thick skin to stay, but if he is attacked, you may find he disappears.....

Like I said the forum is yours to do with what you want, but people have a choice of forums, and I don't know anyone that likes to be insulted.

This post has been edited by Black-Wolf: Apr 26 2008, 07:11 PM

"What does it mean that killers hang out in this forum, killers of all peacful feelings between Muslims and good hearted people who just want to get along with each other?"

I've yet to see any of these so-called 'killers' that hang out here. Patriot, if you're referring to him, is actually a fairly respectful guy to debate or discuss with. Not that I agree with all he says but he is no killer.

I beg to differ...

Those people who would endorse the invasion of a country because they thought he was "wrong" I'd call em killers.

Merciless, Cold-Hearted, Killers.

These people for whom bread is not enough, these people for whom life is just a "resource" these are killers.

Killer for me is a heavily weighted term. I think to achieve that you actually have to kill, not just support something.

In a democratic society though, the opinion turns into action.

Supporting Killing, the actions of the killer, providing them with what they need to kill, this I personally believe makes you a killer.

This post has been edited by Al-Din'As-Darfur: Apr 26 2008, 07:28 PM

From what I remember though, the majority didn't support the war even though the representatives voted for them. America isn't as democratic as we'd like to think and I know you and me both know that. Pockets run deep, especially in war. And that was just then, the polls now are surefire that most are against it.

True. True.
Then again though, Power always resides in the hands of the people, My point being The American people aren't doing enough to oppose war. Patriot for example, supports it. He has no problem with the raping of women and indiscriminate killing of civilians. People like him denounce such things as "well that's how war is". Human lives are nothing but statistics to them.

As for your comment about deep pockets, we can also comment on how the American people still haven't realized that there exists a government within a government, i.e. Federal Reserve.

When people go with the flow, take no blame, remain "victims", choose ignorance, are they really worth saving? These are the "innocent killers" and the sad part is that they're really killing themselves.

This post has been edited by Al-Din'As-Darfur: Apr 26 2008, 08:43 PM

From what I remember though, the majority didn't support the war even though the representatives voted for them. America isn't as democratic as we'd like to think and I know you and me both know that. Pockets run deep, especially in war. And that was just then, the polls now are surefire that most are against it.

True. True.
Then again though, Power always resides in the hands of the people, My point being The American people aren't doing enough to oppose war. Patriot for example, supports it. He has no problem with the raping of women and indiscriminate killing of civilians. People like him denounce such things as "well that's how war is". Human lives are nothing but statistics to them.Many are doing what they feel is all they can do. Protest against and when the time comes vote for the jackals that support your views.

As for your comment about deep pockets, we can also comment on how the American people still haven't realized that there exists a government within a government, i.e. National Reserve. Did you mean the federal reserve? If so boy could we talk there.

When people go with the flow, take no blame, remain "victims", choose ignorance, are they really worth saving? These are the "innocent killers" and the sad part is that they're really killing themselves.

To comment on this killer term. From the definitions I've seen everyone is guilty then. Its just the point of view on chooses to take. Some support Isreal who does thier thing. Others support Palestine who does thier thing. Both sides are doing bad things with no regard to the other side. These are not the only 2 countries doing this. Right now I'm most concerned with Darfur and how come we(America) hasn't done anything more than mention we need to help and intervine. Just read U.N peace force won't be in till 2010. What the hell is up with that.