Mulla Sadra's Ontological Argument Options

[Killed Bill]

One aspect that really interests me is his belief that "something greater cannot come from something which is lesser"

From what I *THINK* I understand from that, it makes sense. And I cannot think of an example in which he is incorrect.

What are your thoughts?

[NOSHADYLADY4]

Whenever we think of lesser and greater, most think that what is greater is best, but not always or perhaps even in this saying.

MY THOUGHTS:

"

something greater cannot come from something which is lesser"

If we believe in the power of Allah, we must believe that many things great can come from things less. For example:

1. Take a seed...it is smaller than a dime but a tree can grow from it!

2. Take and idea...it is just a thought but many great inventions, wars, settlements, etc have came out of it!

3. Take the womb...it is about the size of a walnut but a small human, who may become great, comes as a result!

4. Take a cup of water...from drinking it comes toxins that could cause kidney failure!

5. Take the heart...it is smaller than the fist but produces enough love or hate to pass around the world a million or more times.

6. Take a germ...studying it can produce possible cures!

7. Allah says that, "life can come from death" now I believe that this is the greatest answer to counter-act this theory.

Did not Sadra believe in illusion or write about it? Some would say that he was a pretty good philosopher in his time.

If we want to think on a positive note about this theory, we must think in reality. When we think in reality we can see the whole picture instead of half of the picture. [This reminds me of the last days when the master illusionist (Dajjal) will cause a man to die, but true believers will see through him. Or when he will offer fire and water in reverse to heaven and hell.] He is a tiny creation that will cause great chaos!!

Just my 2cents!!

[Killed Bill]

1. Take a seed...it is smaller than a dime but a tree can grow from it!
2. Take and idea...it is just a thought but many great inventions, wars, settlements, etc have came out of it!
3. Take the womb...it is about the size of a walnut but a small human, who may become great, comes as a result!
4. Take a cup of water...from drinking it comes toxins that could cause kidney failure!
5. Take the heart...it is smaller than the fist but produces enough love or hate to pass around the world a million or more times.
6. Take a germ...studying it can produce possible cures!
7. Allah says that, "life can come from death" now I believe that this is the greatest answer to counter-act this theory.

Here you are using quantitative as means to determine which is greater than another. That is not how he wants us to interpret his argument. We should look at it from a qualitative point of view.

For example my father cannot be 'greater' than me because he created me. However the system of birth is greater than the birth of individuals. The existence of the universe is greater than ours because it is only from its existence that we can give birth, therefore the universe is greater than us.

I am not sure if my interpretation is entirely correct, but that is how I see it.

Did not Sadra believe in illusion or write about it? Some would say that he was a pretty good philosopher in his time.

If we want to think on a positive note about this theory, we must think in reality. When we think in reality we can see the whole picture instead of half of the picture. [This reminds me of the last days when the master illusionist (Dajjal) will cause a man to die, but true believers will see through him. Or when he will offer fire and water in reverse to heaven and hell.] He is a tiny creation that will cause great chaos!!

The tiny you refer to is quantity alone.

[NOSHADYLADY4]

We have to first look at the person and what he theorises. If most of his work is based on illusion, reality and existence, then how are we to get around using it and grasp our own way of thinking and perception? Just like he worked at transcending
the small particulars, shouldn't we also?

With these quantities you can also use the quality. I believe reality and existence go hand in hand. Just like life and death. Each is a reality, both exists and each has a system of "grade". However, death is the greater yet it comes from life, the lesser.

The existence of life has a short span, sleep is the lesser "death," also short, but death is permanent.

The the system of herbology is greater than the herb itself.
The dynamics of the brain is greater than the person that uses it. [If the brain dies, so does the person, yet the "life" of the body can be sustained by "mechanics", but it is not life, just existence upon a thing invented. If the brain is carefully preserved, its existence can go on, if not, it to succumbs to death, but its "dynamics" live on.]

We each have a different aspect if this theory. I believe that each of these examples can fit this theory, and since you say that "your father is lesser than you because he created you", then does this also suppose to pertain to Allah? This can be edging on shirk and can get tricky!