On The Jews And Their Lies Options

[Matamoros]

Ignore the translator's biased intro - this book is not "anti-Semitic".

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Luthereng.pdf

[Matamoros]

Of course, Luther was a raving heretic, but this book is right on!

[NOSHADYLADY4]

This book seems to be correct in its history of the Jews and according to the bible. But then we all will have to give in account of what our own society as a whole did/does.

What is it that you think we are suppose to comment on concerning this book? Martin Luther, his writing of it or the plight of the Jews?

[Nazia1987]

what exactlty is a topic entitled "the Jews and their lies" supposed to make us think of you, OP? Clearly you are bigoted against Jews! I was a Jew before converting to Islam and my blood is still Jewish, meaning i am ethnically Jewish so perhaps I take offense!

[Matamoros]

You have clearly not read the book.

There is nothing wrong - AT ALL - with being a member of the Jewish race. There is EVERYTHING wrong with being a member of the Jewish religion.

Racism is idiocy.

[NOSHADYLADY4]

But isn't it a persons right to choose the religion they want regardless if others feel it is the wrong religion?

From your words...What do you thinkis wrong with the Jewish religion? or are you connecting with Martin Luther's thoughts? Just inquiring...

[Matamoros]

But isn't it a persons right to choose the religion they want regardless if others feel it is the wrong religion?

From your words...What do you thinkis wrong with the Jewish religion? or are you connecting with Martin Luther's thoughts? Just inquiring...

No, error has no rights. It is everyone's duty to find the one, true religion and convert to it.

Things that I think are wrong with the Jewish religion:
I. Killing Jesus Christ
II. Killing Christians
III. Distorting the Holy Bible with the Talmud to justify all sorts of insane perversions (like sorcery and sex with two year old girls).
IV. Infiltrating various institutions through deceit and corrupting them from within

That is just a short list...

I do not agree with Martin Luther on anything besides some elements of this book.

[NOSHADYLADY4]

BUT WHO ARE WE TO SAY ON A PERSONS DUTY TO SEEK THE TRUE RELIGION WHEN ALLAH HAS SAID THAT THERE WILL BE :

"Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62

Irregardless what we may say..Allah's words ring truth. And oh yes...it also mentions christians...unless one believes Jesus(Isa) to be god...Astaghfirullah!

And do not the Jews have the right to believe that their religion is the true religion?

Point I-Since I do not believe that the Jews killed Jesus-I will reserve comment.
Point 2-This is also vise-versa.
Your point #3 is questionable-the Talmud came before the bible-how does it distort the bible-give proofs please.
Point 4-Please do elaberate and give examples. Not that other religions have not done the same.

Just inquesitive as to where this is going!!

[NOSHADYLADY4]

BUT WHO ARE WE TO SAY ON A PERSONS DUTY TO SEEK THE TRUE RELIGION WHEN ALLAH HAS SAID THAT THERE WILL BE :

"Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62

Irregardless what we may say..Allah's words ring truth. And oh yes...it also mentions christians...unless one believes Jesus(Isa) to be god...Astaghfirullah!

And do not the Jews have the right to believe that their religion is the true religion?

Point I-Since I do not believe that the Jews killed Jesus-I will reserve comment.
Point 2-This is also vise-versa.
Your point #3 is questionable-the Talmud came before the bible-how does it distort the bible-give proofs please.
Point 4-Please do elaberate and give examples. Not that other religions have not done the same.

Just inquesitive as to where this is going!!

[Nazia1987]

You have clearly not read the book.

There is nothing wrong - AT ALL - with being a member of the Jewish race. There is EVERYTHING wrong with being a member of the Jewish religion.

Racism is idiocy.

No offense... but how can we really get in a debate about it being right or wrong to be a member of a certain religion? You may sit there, thinking of reasons why it is "wrong" to be a religious Jew, and there are thousands out there the same who believe how "wrong" it is to be a Muslim!

Religion is subjective. We all have our own religions and religious beliefs. When we get into arguments about this religion being right or wrong, that is how wars start and people are killed!

As a former Jew, I can tell you, I never once heard people saying "oh I'm glad Jesus was killed" or any such things. Most services on shabbat were almost identical to Friday services in the masjid in that they dealt with how to become a better person based on teachings within the religion. The rabbi would go over the same things... forgiveness, not holding on to anger, helping charity, etc... and this was how it was for every temple.

Someone might say "oh look at Islam, there is a verse in the Qu'ran that says : "kill the infedels"". And yet, have you ever sat at a Friday service where somebody says "hey let's kill the infedels and beat our wives and blow ourselves up, oh yeah and 9/11 was the greatest thing since sliced bread" . OF COURSE NOT! And any reasonable group of Muslims if they heard such a person speaking would have the mind to throw that person out of the masjid! The point I'm trying to make that from the outside, nearly EVERY religion if not all can be picked apart and demonized. Experience that religion FIRST hand and the people of that religion before you make your judgements! Not by reading some book!

And might I remind you the Qu'ran says: "Let there be NO compulsion in religion" and also includes Jews among THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK! And also that its lawful for a Muslim man to marry a Jewish woman? So would ALlah s.w.t. allow us to marry "evil"' or immoral people? Obviously not which kind of contradicts your whole theory!

No, error has no rights. It is everyone's duty to find the one, true religion and convert to it.

Things that I think are wrong with the Jewish religion:
I. Killing Jesus Christ
II. Killing Christians
III. Distorting the Holy Bible with the Talmud to justify all sorts of insane perversions (like sorcery and sex with two year old girls).
IV. Infiltrating various institutions through deceit and corrupting them from within

That is just a short list...

And somewhere, there is a non-Muslim who is calling Islam evil because of
1. killing innocent civilians through acts of terrorism
2. (refer to no. I)
3. The Prophet Mohammed and Aisha along with many wacky hadiths which can be found which could justify all sorts of insane things
4. Taking over the taxi cab business and owning all the Shell gas stations in north america (ok that was for humor)

This is just a short list....

or perhaps... if somebody compiled such a list they would be really twisting ambiguous parts of the religion to demonize it?

hmm.... you take your guess.

I'm sorry but, we all as members of the human race need to respect other's religious beliefs. Because none of us can scientifically prove or disprove ANY religion, there is no basis for us to say : "you are a liar because you have chosen the WRONG religion." As strongly as you and I believe Islam to be the true and right religion, there is somebody who believes Judaism to be the true religion, and somebody else who believes that for Christianity, someone else for Hinduism, someone for Buddhism, Sikhism, and the list goes on. It's a very dangerous business to label somebody as immoral simply because they follow a religion different from ours and VERY much against the teachings of Islam!

Believe me, you know not of what you speak my friend!

This post has been edited by Nazia1987: May 29 2010, 08:36 PM

[rizwan]

he's catholic...

[Nazia1987]

aaah damn it... ok OP I don't understand your angle... you are coming on a Muslim message board to talk crap on Jews? And you're Catholic? Oh boy I am confused.

Regardless, you can make the case on any religion I'm sorry... it irks me when somebody tries to tear apart another persons religions and say its immoral for somebody to be a follower of that religion. You can do this for any religion and to me it's just ignorant. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, every religion has it's "percieved" flaws from the outside.

This post has been edited by Nazia1987: May 30 2010, 11:34 AM

[Simba]

aaah damn it... ok OP I don't understand your angle... you are coming on a Muslim message board to talk crap on Jews? And you're Catholic? Oh boy I am confused.

btw, although his site has a focus on Muslims, this site is open to everyones dissertations.


Quran (002 : 111 )

... Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."

This post has been edited by Simba: May 30 2010, 12:43 PM

[Nazia1987]

aaah damn it... ok OP I don't understand your angle... you are coming on a Muslim message board to talk crap on Jews? And you're Catholic? Oh boy I am confused.

btw, although his site has a focus on Muslims, this site is open to everyones dissertations.


Quran (002 : 002 )

... Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."

Yes I know and I apologize if the comment I made sounded rude.

[Matamoros]

Where you a practicing Orthodox Jew? If you weren't, then I don't care because "reform Jews" are just like Protestant "Christians".

Proof?

"If a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl, it is nothing, for having intercourse with a girl less than three years old is like putting a finger in the eye." BT Ketubot 11b

Distorting the Holy Bible - are you familiar with the perversian of the story of Adam and Eve in the Zohar? Adam has sex with all the animals, and Lilith (the first woman according to their twisted minds) rebels against Adam because he won't let her be on top during intercourse.

Christians have never ritiually murdered/sacrificed Jews, like Jews have done to Catholic children throughout the centuries. Read Pasque di Sangue by Ariel Toaff - the son of the chief rabbi of Rome.

Some more perversions of the Holy Bible:

"If a Jew is tempted to do evil, he should put on dirty clothes and go to a city where he is not known, and do the evil there" BT Moed Kattan 17a

Gentiles are inclined to bestiality, lewdness, and murder. Gentiles prefer sexual relations with cows more than with their own wives. Eve had sexual relations with the serpent, transmitting lust to the gentiles, from which the Jews are exempt. - BT Abodah Zarah 22a

Jesus Christ is described as a sorceror and pervert. Says that He is burning in hot excretement in Hell. Btw, Islam's claim that Christ wasn't crucified and didn't die is pretty feeble. The Talmud even says that He died.

What about perceived flaws?

[NOSHADYLADY4]

I see that this is not so much about what Martin Luther wrote, but about the hatred and prejudice you have boiling inside of you, especiall for other religions.

And from the comments that you made about Islam, I also see that you are not wise in the history of Islam either, (so be careful what you bring forth my friend)nor do you tolerate anyone else's religion and way of life.

What book do you read and where did you get the obscene and fanatical history of Adam and Eve and the Gentiles? I suspect that you have talked to all the gentile men to see if they all like animals in preference to their wives? I thought not!!
You should be ashamed of yourself for even bringing something like this up tojustify your hatred and intolerance for other religions. if you are Catholic, it is nothing like I studied and continue to study!!

REMEMBER: Talk and/or Debate, But Don't Hate

[Nazia1987]

Where you a practicing Orthodox Jew? If you weren't, then I don't care because "reform Jews" are just like Protestant "Christians".

Yes I was, and although I find Islam to be the true religion, I will say that during the time I was orthodox I was a very good person!

Your comment about reform Jews being like Protestant Christians is just stupid.... what does it even mean? Yes reform Jews are far more liberal than their orthodox counterparts, but you clearly don't know any Jews personally. Many reform Jews are of the mindset of keeping their Jewish heritage, it is not an issue of religion.

The rest of what you write is nonsense.

What I'm saying to you is that like NOSHADYLADY said, you clearly are bubbling with hatred, whether it is just for Jews or all non-Catholics I have no idea and that is your problem to bear. You will find attrocities and percieved perversions in every religion, because most are very old and were written in very different times. Have you ever read your own Bible and looked at what is written within? Have you read the old testament? It's a very bloody book!

You should have respect for people of all religions simply because they are people! One thing about Judaism is that, especially in the US where the majority of Jews are concentrated, we are not talking about a very "religious" community. The Talmud that you are quoting by the way takes up several volumes and I personally don't know a single person who has actually read it. Most Jews are not very religious and don't adhere to the religion, I once read a statistic when I was a practicing Jew that said up to 40% of Jews in America are not religious. So all these religious perversions, etc that you talk about wouldn't even apply to the majority of Jews here in the US..... Judaism in the US is more about a cultural thing.

Like I said if you hate the Jewish religion so much, why not go to a temple or a shul for yourself and see what is going on? Hell put on a yarmulke and pretend you are Jewish so you will blend in. Go to a large temple so you will not be an odd one out and see what is discussed. In my life I have never heard anybody justify pedophilia or beastiality or any such thing... most Jews are very liberal and wouldn't stand for such things as regular people let alone as religious people!

[Matamoros]

Reform Judaism is like Protestantism because both of them are false representations of Orthodox Judaism and Christianity (respectively).

There is violence in the Holy Bible. What of it?

This is exactly what happens when someone brings up Judaism - all of a sudden everyone goes mad and starts foaming at the mouth with accusations of hatred, racism, Nazism, ignorance.... where have I said anything in this thread to indicate any sort of hate for Jews?

What's this about respect? I never said that Jews are any less human (although many Orthodox and Reform Jews today are not even of Judaic descent). In fact, I think that's what the Jews say about Gentiles.

I really doubt that rabbis give talks about killing Gentiles in their sermons (or whatever they have). Just like I wouldn't expect a Mormon to preach about their own perverted fantasies in the pulpit.

If you want to switch the topic to Islam, then please start another thread. Islam's claims to Biblical provenance are so flimsy that Saint Alphonsus only dedicated a few paragraphs to refuting Mohammedanism in A History of Heresies and Their Refutations, which is more than 500 pages long.

[NOSHADYLADY4]

Mohammedanism???Mohamedanism?? Wow!!! Haven't heard that word used for Muslims since the turn of the century and up!!

If you do not wish to be chastised about Islam...do not bring it up here because it will be answered and given a voice.

[Nazia1987]

Reform Judaism is like Protestantism because both of them are false representations of Orthodox Judaism and Christianity (respectively).

Reform Judaism exists because many Jews believe it's time to adapt to changing times. No body is claiming in any way that it is the true representation of the religion.... a true orthodox Jew won't even switch on a light during Shabbes, let alone drive to the synagogue, yet on Friday evening, the parking lot of any reform temple is packed.... many women are wearing yarmulkes even! This shows that this is more about culture than anything else.... there is not a reform jew on the planet that claims that their version of JUdaism is the accurate one.... every one will tell you that they are living their life and adaptingn their religion to go with the modern day and age.... that's just what they believe, so what?

This is exactly what happens when someone brings up Judaism - all of a sudden everyone goes mad and starts foaming at the mouth with accusations of hatred, racism, Nazism, ignorance.... where have I said anything in this thread to indicate any sort of hate for Jews?

No dude.... I especially posted here because my mother is Jewish, and I am Jewish by blood and used to be Jewish by religion.... and what you are writing clearly shows you don't know what you are talking about and don't know any Jewish people.... my problems with this thread is the entire point of this thread which is trying to somehow prove that "Judaism is not the right religion". This is a stupid topic to debate, because religion is personal for each person. I can not prove to you that Islam is the right religion and catholosicm is wrong, and it would be just plain stupid for me to try and do that....

and more than that, a thread with a title like "On the Jews and their lies..." says quite a bit about your "agenda".

What's this about respect? I never said that Jews are any less human (although many Orthodox and Reform Jews today are not even of Judaic descent). In fact, I think that's what the Jews say about Gentiles.

I never claimed you said any of these! Like I said, the entire point of this forum topic is what shows you don't have respect for the beliefs of others. Whether it is Judaism or Hinduism or whatever else, if you really feel as though you can show another religion is wrong, it just honestly shows you are not very tolerant of others beliefs...

and by the way... just showing again how little you know... JEWS DON'T GO AROUND SAYING GENTILES ARE LESS HUMAN!! Where are you getting your information? Even if things like this are in holy books, what I'm saying is that you clearly don't interact with Jewish people on a personal level as this is not what Jews think... like I said Judaism is a religion which has mostly adapted for the changing times....

so what if Jews believe they are God's chosen people, this does not mean they think non-Jews are any "less human". That is just ridiculous!

I really doubt that rabbis give talks about killing Gentiles in their sermons (or whatever they have). Just like I wouldn't expect a Mormon to preach about their own perverted fantasies in the pulpit.

See, there you go again with your obvious intolerance and prejudice. Now Mormons have "perverted fantasies". Why? Because some sects of Mormonism practice plural marriage? So do many Muslims. And by the way, the Mormon church abolished plural marriage. My neighbors are Mormons, and one of my best friends as a child was a mormon. I had many Mormon friends growing up... none of them married their children off at 14 or had multiple wives...

If you want to switch the topic to Islam, then please start another thread. Islam's claims to Biblical provenance are so flimsy that Saint Alphonsus only dedicated a few paragraphs to refuting Mohammedanism in A History of Heresies and Their Refutations, which is more than 500 pages long.

Now all Muslims are wrong too....

so I'm assuming then, in your mind, even all Prodestants are liars and wrong and Catholicism is the only true way....

I'm glad you believe that if it is in your heart. You are a Catholic and you should believe that your religion is the right and true one. But you must understand you live in a world with billions of different people who believe differently. You can not prove to anybody that their religion is wrong. Religion is, in all honesty, not logical. Religion is not based on logic. To win an argument, to prove a theorem, you need to use logic. So all these debates on which religion is right, etc, is all ridiculous because like I said, it's not based on logic but belief. Somebody believes their religion because in their heart, it is right to them. They believe that is the one true religion. No amount of fighting on the other side is going to convince somebody away from that.... so you are essentially wasting your breath....

How will you feel when there are so many people who think that all priests are child molestors? What will you say to that? Will you think "they clearly have never known any catholics and are saying that because of all the stuff that's been on TV and whats been publisized". Anybody who would think this about Catholics is clearly disillusioned! My advice to you is to meet people of other religions and then come to realize how ridiculous your beliefs on non-Catholics really are....

This post has been edited by Nazia1987: Jun 3 2010, 10:25 PM