Please Help Me To Understand Islam! Options

[Dhilhan]

Bismillahir rahmanir rahim

Randolph,

If there is anything you can take out of this conversation, it is that if you insist on learning about Islam YOU MUST step back from what YOU have been told (or learned) from the OT and the NT, clear your biases and understand Islam from Quran and Hadeeth itself. THAT is the yard stick you need to help you understand Islam. NOT your pre-conceived notions based on the Torah and the Bible for the following reasons -

- The Torah and the Bibles were altered by man
- God knew this was going to happen (of course he created all of us and he knows who would be defiantly disobedient)
- God has sent down the seal, the final revelation to ALL of mankind so that we understand and distinguish truth from falsehood. This is indeed the final message and we better open our eyes, understand what is being said and shape up before its too late.
- Of course the Quran is not going to agree with the "many parts" of the Torah and the Bibles because they were altered by man. Of course there is proof, if you only looked hard enough.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist if you really think about which should take precedence in that case now wouldn't it?

Therefore, its clear my friend that MANY if not ALL of your 20 odd questions and comments have no solid foundation to begin with. Its like you are trying to find answers to a question with the wrong material (by looking at altered texts). I suggest you change your approach in your heart first and then refer to the Quran and Hadeeth to understand Islam and NOT use the Bibles and Torah to understand Islam.

Ask yourself this simple yet vital question -

Why do you still rely on a set of altered texts if the subject is as ever important as understanding what God wants of us when he has cleared stated that he WILL send a final messenger and that messenger has already come with the final revelation?

May Allah SWT (God Almighty) guide you in thirst for understanding the truth. (The answers are in the Holy Quran. Read it after changing your approach as mentioned above)

This post has been edited by Dhilhan: May 8 2011, 04:50 AM

[Randolph]

I Just returned from a 2-week vacation.

I won't step back from:
-- what I have learned from the Bible,
and
-- what God has confirmed to me personally through His Spirit,
until someone manages to …

1) Explain the unfortunate error of why no one validated "Gabriel"s authenticity when he appeared to Mohammed.
It has always been in ALL Bibles that this validation MUST be done to avoid being deceived:
1 John 4:
¹ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God;
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
² By this you know the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
³ and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
Note:
-- Evil spirits can affect one's thinking (be they inside or outside of one's body),
so "false prophets" here is referring to the possibility of a demon deceiving a person
into believing false religious doctrine.
-- Everyone acknowledges that the man Jesus Christ was born on the earth, performed miracles, etc.
So, these verses are not referring to these facts.
They are written to Christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God,
and they are referring to God being born on the earth (e.g. Isaiah 7:14, 9:6).

2) Show evidence of real, meaningful, important Bible tahrif, which Muslims are all hung up on.
We are not talking about small unimportant things ...
ALL of the major important doctrines are in ALL Bibles (except those of the sects).
Just for example, come forth with just one old Bible manuscript or one old Bible
which does not have some of the 80+ Trinity-type verses.
If you can do that, then I will carefully consider that your "original" version was altered to produce today's Bible.
Sorry, but there's NO such evidence/proof (and Nicea has nothing to do with this topic).
Evidence for important Bible tahrif cannot be blindly accepted as truth just because it's written in the Quran.

This post has been edited by Randolph: May 11 2011, 10:41 AM

[nicky2000]

Good evening!

I have read a fab book about why the bible is infallable:'Link to 'Nothing but the truth' If your serious you can get this from the library or a good online book store. It changed my life! The Old Testament is an incredible document and without it I could not understand the New Testament at all.

It would make zero sense without the Old testament. The Old testament is not corrupted please read following link:.

Full details of the dead sea scrolls

The old Testament has been hand copied down the generations and used all the time in Synagogues so if someone changed a verse (then as now) the Jews would notice! The book it explains more than I ever could!

I realised that if the bible is word for word true then I was in big trouble, I needed to change my life and read it so I could understand!

When I first saw how Jesus constantly quotes the old testament in the new Testament I started to see how it all fits together and the reason why both testaments are in the bible. Before this I ignored the Old testament!!! So I could not understand the new one!!

For example:

Luke 4:14:21

"Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the spirit, and news about him spread through the countryside. He taught in the synagogues, and everyone praised him.

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went to a synagogue, as he was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

The Spirit of the Lord is on me
because he has anointed me
to preach the good news to the poor
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for
the prisoners
and recovery for the sight of the blnd
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's
favour

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them 'Today this scripture is fufilled in your hearing.'"

With these words Jesus is claiming to fulfill Isaiah with his own lips. He does this often!

Link to the same quote in the old testament:

Link to prove this is in Isaiah

Jesus says: 'I and the Father are one' in John 10:30

Link to 'I and the Father are one': John 10 :30

'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.' (John 14:9-12)

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us." (Matthew 1:23)

Link to:They will call him Immanuel which means "God with us" Matthew 1:23

Jesus answers 'I am' many times in the bible when he is asked who he is. This is important because in the Old Testament in Exodus 3 it says:

'Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I am has sent me to you.'"

The Old testament Prophet Zachariah wrote that that someone with salvation would arrive in Jerusalem/Zion on a colt please read link:

Zechariah 9:9 in the old testament

Jesus fufilled this old testament prophercy by deliberately arriving in Jerusalem gently on the colt of a donkey. Please see link.

Link to Mark 11

They are both special books and it is very hard to understand Jesus's message unless you understand the old Testament too. This is why they are in one book. They totally go together!

You might find these links useful: Please note the Jesus film has a christian prayer at the veryend of the film!

Who is isa al masia? (the man in white?) in Muslim dreams and visions

Arabic bible

Answering Islam

Message from God

The Jesus film

The Alpha course

Christianity explored

Free downloadable bible

Bible comparison site

Jesus says the Holy Spirit will come

The first sentence of the Old testament mentions the Holy Spirit:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Jesus saying the Holy spirit will come with his own lips

Jesus says this:

Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12: 22-32

As a Christian I believe that Muslims and all the people on earth of other faiths even athiests are Gods people. He loves all of us even if we ignore him and reject him.

The next point made is difficult simply because it is not my intention to upset anyone.
I type these words with compassion in my heart and tears in my eyes. These are NOT my words these are the words of the Holy Bible.

Galatians 1:6 (The author of this letter is Paul and it is about a first century church who are still following old testament rituals, especially circumcision. In this letter Paul is saying that faith in Christ is what matters.)

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel- which is no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be eternally condemned. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted let him be eternally condemned!'

The words are not mine. I am not attempting to score points or to be nasty.

I hope I have answered your many questions.

If not ask again! It is a lot to take in at first.

May God bless you in your search for him.

Thank you for letting me speak about Jesus.

Nicky
OOHH You are so a Christian!!! I have just read some of your other posts!! I thought you were looking for God Randolph!! Sorry, what a waste of time... God bless you anyway!

This post has been edited by nicky2000: Apr 1 2012, 02:36 PM