What do u perceive to be islam's greatest flaw(s)?

...all are invited!

The flaws of Islam only seem to exist in the minds of the ignorant.

People is Islams greatest flaw.

al-din'as-darfur-The flaws of Islam only seem to exist in the minds of the ignorant.

And i am intersted in knowing what exists in the minds of the ignorant.

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juan-People is Islams greatest flaw.

Do u mean people as a product of islam, or people as misrepresentative of islam?

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i will try to rephrase my question: what makes non-muslims steer clear from islam? and anything that muslims wish (devil's whisperings?) were different?

The latter. I will wait and see who comments and how before I explain this out.

Islam has no flaw. Islam is perfect.

The flaw lies in the human- we are in an age where Muslims are not representing Islam in a true, real light.
And those who are, are not the ones put on display, but the ones who are mis-representing it. Thus giving the masses a false picture.

Before the debate gets any deeper I have to ask people what is Islam first. What makes up Islam before we can start to say hey this is a flaw oh look at that. Cause does Islam include its followers?

KeeKee said it.

Islam is a religion, there is no flaw in the religion. The flaw lies in the 'muslims'..humans are not perfect, therefore prone to error and are misrepresentative of Islam.
To understand true Islam, check out the Quran.

So we are going to say practices of the religion is part of the religion?

Number one thing we have established is the Quran is part of Islam. How about hadiths now?

juan-Number one thing we have established is the Quran is part of Islam. How about hadiths now?

Let me see u blow holes in the qur'an. a failed qur'an, i suppose, would mean failed islam.

What keeps u, and others, from accepting the quran? complaints (why this way?) and suggestions (maybe this way?) regarding islam (or God) most welcome.

Onlinetoenjoy I am trying to get a basis of what we all can agree on to what makes up Islam. One persons views is differnent from the next. I was saying that we all can agree that the Quran is part of Islam. I will even venture forth and say Mohammed is another part. Meaning his example and teachings. I ask about hadiths cause some might consider them part of Islam and others may not.

the declaration of faith is 'there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger therefore the Prophet peace be upon him is obviously one of the main belief.

Juan, the hadith cannot be guaranteed as preserved as Allah has promised only to safeguard the Quran.

Therefore, only after extensive research is a hadith accepted. In answer to your question, no, hadith are not flawless although the Prophet is.

I apologize for not being able to get my point out there. I wasn't attacking hadith I was just trying to cover all bases on what is considered Islam. It seems to be a tougher question than I thought. Is hadith considered part of Islam? If so per Blessing they are not flawless and could be considered a flaw. Personally I stick to my biggest flaw argument is people.

So far it's agreed that:

1) The Qur'an is the word of God, and has been preserved to this day

2) Hadith are not the preserved text, they are historical traditions and open to criticism; therefore they are not flawless

3) Muhammad pbuh was flawless; the Qur'an commands obedience to the Prophet, so if the Prophet was flawless and the Hadith are not flawless, surely there must be more Muslims should do in order to emulate Muhammad pbuh, more than reliance on the Hadith, right?

So I am really reiterating what juan said, the biggest flaw of the religion is the people. Therefore, can we dig deep and ask ourselves whether the things that we hear, read and see has really got anything to do with the actual message of the Qur'an? Or have we walked off on a certain tangent and lost touch with the root of our belief?

Blessing said that a hadith is accepted after an extensive research yet today there are people divided on the basis of hadiths. Is so much importance paid on the hadiths that we tend to ignore the Qur'an? Do we really use hadiths to interpret and understand the Qur'an better or are we unknowingly twisting the original message of the Qur'an so that it is brought in accord with a hadith? This in effect determines Sharia Law, and if our law is tangled up - boy oh boy, we sure are in a mess. If so, let's remind ourselves that the Qur'an is the only preserved book of guidance and it's way above the hadiths (the hadiths are not to be ignored, they undergo a critical analysis, but the Qur'an is much higher).

So that brings us to the following items:

1) Allah has promised only to safeguard the Qur'an. Hence, how should the Qur'an be read and interpreted? The miracle of the Qur'an is it's universality, it has a widespread applicability. Despite an increase in human knowledge, one generation to another have found the Qur'an relevant. Can we risk this eternal and universal attribute of the Qur'an?

2) The Hadith are not flawless - why? Because it tends to limit the Qur'an to a specific historical situation and that risks it's universality. That's not to say that we rush to conclude that all hadith are fabricated; it really means that one must guard himself from traditions that contradict with reason or empirical facts, and going against your personal right to reason and reflection as per the Qur'an verses:

Say: Travel through the Earth and see how Allah originated Creation 29:20

"...Tell [them], then, this story, so that they might take thought." (7:176)

"...Thus clearly do We spell out these messages unto people who think!" (10:24)

"...in this, behold, there is a message indeed for people who think!" (16:11)

"...so that thou might make clear unto mankind all that has ever been thus bestowed upon them, and that they might take thought." (16:44)

"...In all this, behold, there is a message indeed for people who think!" (16:69)

"...In [all] this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!" (39:42)

"...And He has made subservient to you, [as a gift] from Himself, all that is in the heavens and on earth: in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!" (45:13)

"...And [all] such parables We propound unto men, so that they might [learn to] think." (59:21)


3) The Hadiths can be flawed and so they don't entirely live up to portraying the Prophet's example in full. But God constantly speaks to Muhammad in the Qur'an, commanding him to be steadfast, patience and to pray etc. So how can we primarily honour and respect the Prophet's sunnah? Well it is by being just as honest, steadfast, earnest and pious as him - that is not to say we should act exactly as he did because our circumstances are different, it is not healthy or normal for humans to act exactly like somebody else - that said, imitating the Prophet's honest nature enables us to be honest with ourselves and our circumstances.

This is all in light of juan's original question - what really makes Islam before pointing out the actual flaws. Then we can move onto the actual flaws and realize everybody is responsible for their own actions and must hold themselves accountable for it without pointing the finger at others - so the biggest flaw is the people not as the product of Islam but as a mispresentative of Islam. Which thus concludes blessing's statement: to understand true Islam, check out the Qur'an.

[Apologies for the lengthy post, I am in a hurry =)]

Peace and greetings

juan-Onlinetoenjoy I am trying to get a basis of what we all can agree on to what makes up Islam. One persons views is differnent from the next. I was saying that we all can agree that the Quran is part of Islam. I will even venture forth and say Mohammed is another part. Meaning his example and teachings. I ask about hadiths cause some might consider them part of Islam and others may not.

--> What all muslims will agree upon is that the qur'an represents islam...which is the reason i tried to rephrase my question!

So anybody rejects islam then there's a very good chance that the qur'an is being rejected! As such, i invite constructive criticism of the qur'an, and also "suggestions" as to what may have been different!

At the same time i am also open to direct complaints/suggestions pertaining to god!

________

bin't zayd-Which thus concludes blessing's statement: to understand true Islam, check out the Qur'an.

--> So has anybody out here checked the qur'an (or true islam) and returned disappointed?

How about not being able to get a "good" enough translation. I hear all the time I have the wrong translation or meaning. Why do I have to learn Arabic to get the real Quran. That to me limits it. Does the Quran say anything about praying 5 times a day?

No worries, Juan, I know you weren't attacking
The basis of Islam is as Keekee said..the declaration of faith. Anything that contradicts the Quran is not part of Islam.

The Quran is not limited, rather it's our understanding. The reason you may have been told the translation is not quite correct is because arabic is such a broad language, in order to understand the quran fully in depth, you need to study arabic. However, for a brief overview, there really shouldn't be that much discrepancy between different translations.

I, personally, haven't come across any with 'wrong' translations. So, I don't understand why you were told that..perhaps you could enlighten us regarding the authors of the commentary?

Islam and its Quran are perfect. No constructive criticism is needed nor suggestions. Muslims however are not perfect. Humans are not infallible so this goes for people of all faiths.

juan-How about not being able to get a "good" enough translation. I hear all the time I have the wrong translation or meaning. Why do I have to learn Arabic to get the real Quran. That to me limits it. Does the Quran say anything about praying 5 times a day?

--> Okay...so accessibility is one reason that keeps u away from the qur'an. Do u think god could have done something different there? If yes, what? And i am asking this in all earnesty.

Let us suppose that the qur'an needs or doesn't need u to pray 5 times a day...what would change for u?

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Islam and its Quran are perfect. No constructive criticism is needed nor suggestions. Muslims however are not perfect. Humans are not infallible so this goes for people of all faiths.

--> It has already been suggested by somebody that the flaws exist only in the minds...i am trying to understand in what ways!

Saying that humans are not perfect doesn't seem as a solution to me. If somebody knows that humans are imperfect then i can understand the disowning of muslims, but why refuse the qur'an for the incompetence of muslims?

Some translations are dated, they made more sense then than they did now, for an 'up to date' translation I'd suggest the "Poetic Quran" Which tries to carry the poeticness of the Quranic 3arabic into english, or Kalifa's translation. The poetic quran is the translation of one of the greatest Tasfir(Interpretation of quran with reasoning and commentary) ever built, while Kalifa is an Orthodox(non-denom) muslim so he tends to get into the meaning of the 3arabic.

In order to get the REAL quran though you have to learn 3arabic, only then can you know its true meaning for yourself. Relying on 3rd parties isnt a good idea, and that goes for everything.

Consider:

• non-muslims, usually from the West are familiar with the linear structure of a book. The Qur'an does not contain a linear structure neither does it provide a systematic portrayal of Prophet Muhammad's life (it only takes shape after much study). The Qur'an doesn't contain info, ideas and arguments about specific themes arranged in literary order which is why strangers to the Qur'an at first approach are perplexed by it.
• When approaching the Quran non-muslims, unlike muslims, don't bring with them items from the past 1400 years of History such as commentaries + interpretations of the Qur'an, traditions and stories of the prophet and his companions, nor their personal experience and expectations of Islam. So they tend to turn to Muslims for further info and may come across something that misrepresents Islam. It can be a book difficult to understand if it is read with the intention of negotiating for example non-muslims buying the translations of the Qur'an to see what motivated perpetrators of recent events. The problem is not with the translation itself but the approach. Do the math.
• Arrangement of the Qur'an is neither chronological nor thematic so for those who are used to reading in a sequential fashion, the Qur'an may prove to be frustrating...

The Qur'an in actual fact is not intended to be read sequentially. It's not a book of sciences, or a historical record, nor a book of morality only. It is a book to be practiced, it is to educate people intellectually and spiritually, and govern lives in both the individual and social realm. Therefore, this book can be understood by practicing it in the daily life or coupling a personal study of the book with personal experiences. To be honest, seperating the Qur'an from practical life means reducing the Quran to just a book to be read. If it's approached as just a book to be read, it doesn't unfold much.

Now this isn't going to sound fair really but it is the truth. Non muslims will judge the Quran without ever picking it up by the actions of the general public of Muslims. Yes you may say this isn't fair but The Ummah is a representitive of the Quran. How else really is a non muslim going to know anything about Islam without reading the Quran. They sit back and watch the followers. Everyone does it.

^Well that's very unfair isn't it?

Say we have two 'muslim' groups.

Muslim A and Muslim B.

Group A is preaching hatred and is demanding Jihad on the UK.

Group B is preaching peace and for everyone to work together in harmony.

They both call themselves muslims, pray five times a day and what not. Which group is correct? How would you know unless you did consult the Quran?

It all really does boil down to one thing, ignorance. Yes, it's true. No one can be asked to do the real research-'let's just follow the norm.'

'Ive heard muslims oppress their women'
'yes that must be true 'coz I've seen it too!'

Rumours?

How about we study the Quran?

I really do wish people would stop judging on account of a few or even the majority...we have been given brains to do our OWN research and make our own way. That's exactly what I do. So, no, not everyone judges a religion on the basis of people who *claim* to follow it.

But both group A and group B find thier rights in the Quran correct?
Group A is preaching Jihadi this and that quoting verses from the Quran.
Group B is preaching against this and also quoting different verses from the Quran.
Now both of them are using the same Holy book for justification how is an outsider suppose to know who is right?
I also said it wasn't fair ahead of time.
Group Americans A lets go to war
Group Americans B lets stop all wars
How is America looked at around the world? Let me give you a guess its not the nice one. It happens all the time.

Both groups 'claim' to follow the book, yet they obviously don't. There is a pure contradiction and the truth is only revealed when one does research for themselves. And about the America thing, well then you should know it isn't right to judge.

But to be fair, the leader of America (Bush) supports war so..

Whereas the leader of Islam (prophet) doesn't promote violence so..

Both scenarios are settled.

bin't zayd-

--> I understand what u are saying (or so i feel), but it does not address my point. Any attempt to reply to ur well thought out post would only take this off-topic, so i will let it pass!

Like i remarked, when somebody "knows" that islam is being misrepresented, why choose to not give it more consideration?

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juan-Ok yes I do think that a greater superior being could make a holy book for everyone one of his/her creations to understand. Do you understand this point. I don't mean from intense study either, I mean simple enough for everyone in thier own language to understand.

--> Better still, maybe a personalized copy for each?

juan-My point here was to show that if the Quran does not say to pray five times a day by Mohammed did then his actions would be considered part of Islam. Hence if Mohammed did do them in accordance to the wishes of God then why not say so in the Quran. So then I seem to think the Quran isn't whole.

-->Okay. And if it turns out that qur'an does not mention prayers 5 times a day, and there are no 5 times a day prayers...would u deem the qur'an more complete?

juan-Sounds prideful. Especially since humans are part of the religion

--> Hmmm...looking at that statement from the qur'an's pov, it does seem acceptable. Else, yes, does look arrogant.

juan-Now this isn't going to sound fair really but it is the truth. Non muslims will judge the Quran without ever picking it up by the actions of the general public of Muslims. Yes you may say this isn't fair but The Ummah is a representitive of the Quran. How else really is a non muslim going to know anything about Islam without reading the Quran. They sit back and watch the followers. Everyone does it.

--> How about u? I guess u are better informed...have u read the qur'an?

Who is the modern day leader of Islam? Doesn't each sect have a spiritual leader they follow? I mean we can't compare past and present. If that is the case I can say the leader of America Jimmy Carter doesn't support war. Only problem is he isn't the one giving orders or influencing people today. Same for Islam. One can say yes the prophet was a peace loving man and there is many sources to prove this but he is not the ones that people are listening to and getting their advice from. If so then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all would be case closed.

We seem to have two different topics here - one about what makes up Islam; and the other is when somebody knows Islam is being misrepresented why not give it more consideration? By this, do you mean why should they be reluctant to accept the Qur’an? Or do you mean, why can’t they be willing to learn the truth about the religion?

These questions have many explanations - when it comes to accepting the Qur’an you have to also consider there are other scriptures that people will take under consideration for example the Bible or Torah, or else how will they know which is the true scripture? And if the followers of Islam are claiming it to be the perfect religion, it bears a bigger challenge for the religion to prove it’s perfect so that is why non-Muslims will take one step back, observe and evaluate the religion before making a decision, bearing in mind that they have other scriptures and possibilities out on the table to consider as well. Now that relates to my previous posts.

Thank you Binty. You said that a muslim will claim Islam to be perfect and a non muslim will take one step back is sooooo true. First thought to my mind is anything that has humans in it isn't perfect. There is two other religions out there that bear similiar resembelance to Islam, but only Islam is perfect? Thank you for clearing that up. Onto your other post part. For this same reason people(non muslims) will not take the Quran as face value as being perfect. Also I would like to touch on your point of when someone knows when Islam is being misrepresented. As a non muslim and very ignorant at one time I can say we don't know that it is being misrepresented most of the time. We assume that the actions of Muslims come from the Quran. It wasn't until my time on Mo that I even knew about Hadith. I have to say for this reason is why many non muslims will not pick up the Quran and read it. They look at the people and say hey look that is what the Quran teaches. It also seems that I am the only non muslim willing to give into this thread at this time, so I will be more than happy to doll out my P.O.V..

bin't zayd-We seem to have two different topics here - one about what makes up Islam

--> I am more interested in what people (muslims & non-muslims) *think* makes up islam...and the subsequent flaws they perceive

and the other is when somebody knows Islam is being misrepresented why not give it more consideration? By this, do you mean why should they be reluctant to accept the Qur'an? Or do you mean, why can't they be willing to learn the truth about the religion?

--> Not meaning to target juan, but he seems to be pretty aware that islam is being misrepresented! i am interested in knowing what people like him have to say concerning the qur'an which, as somebody put it, represents the true islam! i know it's not that simple, but, still, what is their overall take on the text called the qur'an!

I've only read some of the Qur'an, but it seems to repeatedly describe God's wrath towards unbelievers. I don't understand this. Why would God be angry at them? He has unlimited power, unlimited knowledge, and he created everything. So surely he must have created the world knowing exactly that some people would not believe in him. We can only assume that since God cannot make a mistake, and that he chose to allow disbelief for good reason. If disbelievers exist for good reason, then why should he be angry with them? For isn't it only through his will that they disbelieve?

emilygreen-I've only read some of the Qur'an, but it seems to repeatedly describe God's wrath towards unbelievers.

--> While the god of qur'an does threaten the unbelievers with its wrath, it also promises forgiveness to those who repent and cease to associate! So the gate of mercy is always accessible to one seeking the way!

Also, i am not sure if believing alone is sufficient, most of the times "good deeds" are also demanded! I am not inclined to get into this at the moment!

emilygreen-I don't understand this. Why would God be angry at them? He has unlimited power, unlimited knowledge, and he created everything. So surely he must have created the world knowing exactly that some people would not believe in him. We can only assume that since God cannot make a mistake, and that he chose to allow disbelief for good reason. If disbelievers exist for good reason, then why should he be angry with them? For isn't it only through his will that they disbelieve?

--> I can offer these verses:

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7.172. And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware;

7.173. Or lest ye should say: (It is) only (that) our fathers ascribed partners to Allah of old and we were (their) seed after them. Wilt Thou destroy us on account of that which those who follow falsehood did?

~~~~~~~~

From 7.172 it does appear that before being put forth on earth, all had testified to the sovereignty of god! i think there are other verses which state that subservience to god is innate to humans! And v 173 seems to be an assertion of this!

The question then would be: *why* did god give us this responsibility? would it not have been wiser, and more just, on its part to have not burdened us thus? Perhaps, the following verse might be relevant:

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33.72. Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool.

~~~~~~~~

From 33.72 it seems that v assumed this of our own accord!

I don't know whether anything i offered helped, but that's what i am offering at the moment!

Again, i don't intend to be an apologist for god: if it exists it should be a sufficient defender unto itself!

Of course, God needs no justification for his actions. My personal confusion over these issues is by no means an attempt to accuse my creator. That would be rather silly.

I havent read the crap in this thread - But i'll just post something random.

1) The Quran defends itself, Even those who try to take it out of context fail. I can pick up the bible and bring forth any hatred i please, the same with any other book.But on closer inspection you will be able to see the errors.

2) Bla bla bla.

emilygreen-Of course, God needs no justification for his actions. My personal confusion over these issues is by no means an attempt to accuse my creator. That would be rather silly.

--> : thumbs up :

And u have made a very interesting point: god needs no justification for its actions!

I'll give it a swing:

As a humanist, I don't personally believe that any holy book contains god's thoughts. I think that they contain inspired, possibly divinely inspired, human thoughts about divinity and life, morality and conduct. After all, we are only referring to a human world here. That's all we know. And I don't say this out of complete ignorance, although I plead ignorance anyway. I spent the first half of my life kissing the torah every Saturday morning and studying it the rest of the week.

I can read small sections of the Koran per sitting but I just can't stay with it after a while. I can't bear the image of god it casts yet it fascinates me. It's a god that is all too human. A god who's love is conditional and therefore quite imperfect. Quite flawed. Because love, as I know it, in it's higher form, does not create conditions. It is just love that, if anything, frees us from the conditions we have place upon ourselves and each other. One can witness this in humans. It's incredibly courageous. But one thing for sure, it never punishes. It doesn't need to. Ever. Yet, like any profound set of ideas, a holy text has a great potential for inspiration for those who know how to use it wisely and who want, seriously want, to seek inspiration. And that's what I seek.

The concepts of perfect and flawed create an interesting dialogue. What is perfect? What is flawed? I would venture that in this situation, perfect means completely true, and the complete transmission of god's ideas and wishes. It can withstand scrutiny, like a theory can be demonstrated through replication in different environments and with different factors. Flawed means constructed in human thinking and unable to withstand scrutiny and not repeatable under every circumstance.

Something perfect does not evolve. There is no need for evolution in that case. It is ultimate, inviolable and whole unto itself. Does god evolve or is he completely whole unto himself? How do we know this?

I believe that true knowing comes through direct experience. That knowing isn't perfect because, like everything else, it is interpreted through our personal consciousness. We can't step out of that.

Bottom line, if something is flawed but it speaks deeply to us and contributes richly to our lives, is it not of great value? If the spirit within us inspires us to create, to write, to communicate something inspired and universal, is that whole unto itself?

In this vast, unfathomable universe, I see Islam as a religion with its strengths and weaknesses. Like everything else, it contributes to our world positively and negatively. But one thing is for sure, I don't believe Islam as a religion exists without people. Like I've said before, without humans, a religion is just books and buildings.

murkylight-As a humanist, I don't personally believe that any holy book contains god's thoughts. I think that they contain inspired, possibly divinely inspired, human thoughts about divinity and life, morality and conduct.

--> If it doesn't contain god's thoughts, how can it possibly be divinely inspired? Or are u using "divine" to denote excellence?

None, alhamdulillah.

thats quite an illogical statement.

How can people be considered a flaw in Islam? Or maybe you meant to say "human nature". but even that does not make sense.

No offense, dude. But can you use the "quote" function. I am having a hard time figuring out what you're saying and to whom.

Thanks.

chailvr-Can't thoughts be inspired and still be yours?

--> "Inspired" in itself is suggestive of divine intervention; divinely inspired seems to be even more suggestive of god's intervention! However, i agree that both "inspired" and "divine" can also be used to denote superlativeness!

Perhaps, by "divinely inspired" is only meant an utmost degree of (human) excellence; i only seek clarification towards improving my comprehension!

Quran and sunnah of the Messenger (pbuh) embodies the message of Islam.

brightbroom-None, alhamdulillah.

--> : thumbs up :

brightbroom-No offense, dude. But can you use the "quote" function. I am having a hard time figuring out what you're saying and to whom.

--> I try to put "username-" in front of the addressee! And my reply is preceded with a "-->"

I apologize for the inconvenience!

Could you cite your proof for this statement, please?



I disagree, sister.

How are hadiths not preserved? How do they limit the understanding of Quran? and How do they not portray our nabi 's example in full?

Whatcha talking about, bintay!

Muslims (not Islams) greatest flaw is the inability to consistently follow the Quran and Sunnah in a non-hypocritical way and the mixing of negative culture and Islam together.

Howdy brightay, .

Brother, read the full post attentively - hadiths are historical, the Qur'an is not historical, it is divine. My History teacher back in the school days (a very genuine man as well) said that a good way of knowing someone in History is to read quotes (in our case, the hadith narrations). So it certainly does portray our prophet pbuh's example but I don't think hadiths exemplify him in entirety, I humbly feel that our approach to the Qur'an and the Sunnah will enable us to understand the prophet better.

Firstly consider this - even though the narrations are authentic, do they not raise several problems? These traditions were written by the companions of the Prophet after his death is why it's special for Muslims, because these are companions who witnessed the prophet - sensed him, literally felt his presence. Among the companions of the Prophet were various kinds of people - some had sharp memories and a good comprehension of problems whilst others had a poor understanding of issues and lacked good memory. Some companions spent many years with the Prophet whilst other spent little time with him. The criteria to judge hadith was based on honesty and integrity (which is excellent) but it failed to judge according to intelligence or comprehension (which is also very vital in formulating Shariah laws). Maybe some narrators had their biases on certain matters which affected what they wrote.

Now my point is this - there are authentic hadiths and ought to be taken as inspiration, example and motivation, however the Ulama view them as unquestionably divine and not subject to change. There is a failure of realizing the rapid change taking place in social, economical, political and cultural circumstances - how are we suppose to deal with this? When the muslim world is divided and have their own sets of hadith, determining how God's laws are suppose to be, how do we keep up with the changes of our society? Isn't the Qur'an the ultimate eternal and universal laws of God?

"Shall we treat the Muslims like the guilty? What is wrong with you? How do you Judge? Do you have another book that you apply? One that gives you anything you want?" (68:36-38)

"Why do they not study the Qur'an carefully? If it were from other than God, they would have found many contradictions therein." (Ch. 4: Ver. 82)

You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them. (17:36)

Oh, which reminds me, didn't Prophet Muhammad pbuh say the following in his last sermon:
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people.

Brightbroom: I believe Binty answered that well. Wallahu A'lam.

Also, something else to consider: If hadith were all preserved-why are there certain hadith that are fabricated? Surely...all of them (like the quran) should be equally reliable-IF they were preserved.

Note that hadith are only preserved through chains...and chains can have weaknesses(which have their own principles according to usool e fiqh/hadith)...big subject..

Cause the people are Islam. They represent Islam. They follow the teachings of Islam. When one thinks of Islam the followers come to mind. Scroll up and check out chucks post. I will agree on that point.