Where do Catholics differ from Christians? I am a Christian, and recently read some disturbing stuff about Catholics, and so I was curious.

Tells us what you read? Then the differences can be pointed out.

Catholics ARE Christian.

CHRISTian: One who believes CHRIST is the Savior.

Catholic: One who believes CHRIS is the Savior.

Same thing. Same Bible. Same Message. Different Structure and interpretation.

Catholics are a denomination of Christianity, hence all catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are catholics. I think you meant how does the differing practices, rituals etc of Catholics differ to the customs of the Protestants?

On a side note, could you outline what you read about catholics that you found disturbing?

Regards.

Catholics are christian Shias. Yes they are christian, but many "other" christians do not consider them christians for the rituals and practices Catholics do.

So, what I found disturbing...

Well, a man who had formerly been a Catholic priest claimed that Catholics thought that the pope was Jesus reincarnated.
He also said that the ultimate goal of the leaders of the Catholic church was to sidetrack people from true Christianity by offering something similar, but not quite there.
The man's name was Alberto. I don't know his last name.

I'm not saying I believe this. I've been trying to get a second opinion, and hear it from a Catholic's point of view. I don't know much about Catholocism.

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Jesus reincarnate nah. Do they believe he is the closet person on earth to god, yes.

Everyone was the same holy catholic and apostolic church until around 1050 something then the split. Same roots. Just for some reason the Catholic church is under fire by the other arms of christianity.

QUOTE(juan @ Aug 9 2008, 10:34 AM)

QUOTE(iLive4Christ @ Aug 9 2008, 11:22 AM)

So, what I found disturbing...

Well, a man who had formerly been a Catholic priest claimed that Catholics thought that the pope was Jesus reincarnated.
He also said that the ultimate goal of the leaders of the Catholic church was to sidetrack people from true Christianity by offering something similar, but not quite there.
The man's name was Alberto. I don't know his last name.

I'm not saying I believe this. I've been trying to get a second opinion, and hear it from a Catholic's point of view. I don't know much about Catholocism.

Thank you for any help you can offer!

Jesus reincarnate nah. Do they believe he is the closet person on earth to god, yes.

Everyone was the same holy catholic and apostolic church until around 1050 something then the split. Same roots. Just for some reason the Catholic church is under fire by the other arms of christianity.

So where do they get to pray to Mary? The Bible never says to do that.

The Catholic Church in England, No longer swears by the truth of the bible.

From my experience, Catholics rely heavily on intercession.

Who prays to Mary? Common misconception. Also they don't pray to saints either.

It's not a prayer to Mary or the saints is it, it's merely communication for intercession? I think it's the same as humans requesting each other for prayers. It's a petition instead of worship. If this is not the case, then it's wrong as one should only worship God.

I talked with a Catholic the other day who says they do pray to Mary.

Really real confused they are. Its like Bin't Zayd said an intercession. That person doesn't understand how to pray proper.

Some catholics I've come across stated they meant communication to Mary, not worship, even though communication itself is an issue - how could Mary hear every person's request for she is not omnipotent nor omniscient, therefore not God. God alone we seek.

I guess the belief is a personal matter, some say they do pray to Mary, others would state it's merely a communication, a petition for something just in the same manner we request prayers from each other.

But why? Why ask a dead lady, even if she is seen as holy, for prayer? Yeah, she's in Heaven, but I don't think they trouble with our affairs.

Its like this. The saints are suppose to be real holy people right. So you will ask them to speak up for you to god since they are closer to god for you in hopes your prayer will be heard. Its hard to explain. Now Mary mother of Jesus was special. How many other women have given while still a virgin?


It seems Bin't Zayd has a good understanding of how it works.

So how else does Catholicism differ from the rest of Christianity?

Well my mother is now a Baptist so I will ask her. For I went a different route altogether.

Don't compare Catholicism to Shi3a Islam..

Ever.

Catholics are the largest Christian group.
And the First Pauline Church.

All Pauline churches(Catholic, Protestant[Lutheran, Baptist etc.] beleive in intercession, Or the concept of the Resurrection would be meaningless.

Not the same Bible, The Orthodox Bible, The Protestant and the catholic Bible Are VERY Different.

But In the end, Of all the Different versions of the Bible, The Catholic church had the only hand in what became the "New Testament".

See the Lost Gospels(mainly Barnabas, Pauls' Teacher) for more info, I could go with this one.

The Gospel of Barnabas isn't in the bible by the way, even though he unlike Paul was THERE with Isa(RA)
Different Bibles.

For my explanation, I wwould consider Christian Non-Catholics as those belonging to the Protestant persuasion.

The difference between them are numerous. They may be political and dogmatic as well as in practice. Simplistic explanation as to why there is political difference - because we have to remember that Martin Luther objected to the excesses of the Roman Catholic clergy as well as the political monopoly of the southern europeans (italians and french)in the church hierarchy. Solution: break away or protest the status quo - hence Protestants. (Arguably there may also be a racial dimension to the schism - germans vs. South Europeans)

Biggest difference is dogmatic - Catholics believe (as taught to me in Salvation history class while in Catholic high school and university) that aside from Jesus' sacred blood, true salvation can only be achieved through following, stringently if need be, his life example and his teachings. It seems to me that Catholics are slowly modifying certain concepts in their as belief in Jesus' godhood is not enough. Nowadays, Jesus' blood sacrifice only erases the Original Sin - in Catholic teaching that was committed by Adam and Eve.

Protestants, and most of the other denominations spawned by this sect, state that the only true ways to salvation are accepting that Jesus is God and was crucified and died for our sins. (IMHO this position is rather escapist and dangerous in that it removes accountability for bad deeds because theoretically you will be saved no matter what you do as long as you accept the redeeming blood of Christ)

Catholics do have peculiar practices, including the veneration of saints and Mary. To my knowledge, Protestants do not practice this.

There is also the question of (now defunct) "Indulgences" which were the norm up to the late 19th century. Indulgences were simply a way for some catholics to make a "donation" to the church if you fail some sacred duty or sacrament such as going to church on sunday or confession. In its worse form, some Catholics would pay the clergy if they have committed sins - like adultery, fraud, etc. A milder aspect is that it is practiced as payment for others to do your religious duties. In the Philippines, for example, you can still go to some specific churches in Metro Manila and have someone pray for you inside church!

Then there is also the issue of Confession which other Christian sects do not seem to accept or practice. There is also the "Infallibility" of the Popes which Non-Catholics also contest.

Anyway, these are just some of the obvious differences. Good luck in your studies.

I will get back later in more detail, but Catholics are the only true Christians. The Catholic Church was founded on the Holy Apostle Peter in the year 33 a.D. by Jesus Christ -- eventually, with the conversion of Constantine, Christianity became visibly divided into two parts- Western and Eastern, Roman and Greek. In 1050 a.D., due to political upheavel, the Greek church broke off from the Latin. Then during the Reformation, heretics like Luther and Calvin broke off from the Roman Catholic Church and founded their own "Christian" churches.

I'll also try to define indulgences (they are still alive and well, by the way), they are NOT money given to the Church or any of that nonsense, all that is Protestant propaganda.

Peace to all...

Not really. Both Jesus and Peter viewed themselves as devout JEWS. Jesus himself stated on many occasions that he is (simply) the fulfilment of prophecy from the Old Testament - "I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

By your own logic, the Catholic Church should have been founded on 0 A.D. - the very death of Jesus. However, no Church scholar has made this claim to my knowledge. In reality, modern day Catholicism owes more to St. Paul, who was incidentally a Roman citizen. He was the one who started preaching to the Gentiles (non-Jews) which Peter and later James (the brother of Jesus) clearly opposed. That is why up to this day it is called the ROMAN Catholic Church. If it were the only true Christian church they would do well to discard the Roman part.

Indulgences not for the Church? Really? The experiences of natives in the Philippines proves otherwise - landed natives (the descendants of pre-hispanic tribal leaders) would give their lands and money to the Spanish friars, who in turn intercedes on their behalf. This was how the Catholic Church became so rich and owns so much property in the Philippines!

Fun Fact for everyone: The different Catholic Orders in the Philippines referred to themselves as "Corporations" in their official documents during the Spanish era - very revealing...

I suppose this is why the Holy Apostle Peter was martyred by the Romans to the consent of the Jews and the followers of Christ were persecuted by the perfidious Jews?



A.D. stands for "anno Domini" - that is, the Year of Our Lord". A.D. is not "After death", O A.D. is the year that Jesus was born -- 33 A.D. is the year of his death. True, the Holy Apostle Paul was the one who got Catholicism moving -- were is your proof that Peter and James opposed Paul? They had disagreements, but at the end of the day, they got along. Roman would be the geographical location - just like the Greek Orthodox Church, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church, etc. Within the CATHOLIC Church, there are 21 self-governed churches all united under the Supreme Pontiff, currently His Holiness, Benedict XVI - the Roman Catholic Church, the Byzantine Catholic Church, the Maronite Catholic Church, the Greek-Melkite Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Catholic Church, just to name a few.



Giving land and money to the Church is considered a pious thing to do, which in turn leads to an indulgence. There is no such thing as an "indulgence" -- the indulgence is removal of temporal punishment due to sin (aka time in purgatory) due to acts of piety.

What does their deaths in the hands of fellow Jews have anything to do with Peter and Jesus being devout Jews? Jean D'Arc and the Knights Templar were devout Christians but that didn't stop their fellow Christians from burning them at the stake. Could it be that there were rivalries among the Jews? The Jews had different subgroups after all that didn't necessarily really get along that well (when Jesus was alive and preaching)...what with the Suddacees, Pharisees and others like Zealots and whathaveyous. Heck, even the early Christians had power struggles.

OK my bad for the A.D. thing. They are against Paul's preaching and converting Gentiles and making shortcuts like eliminating circumcission.

Really? Do the Orthodox now acknowledge the primacy of the Patriarch of (Papa) of Rome? Good for Benedict. How come the Orthodox rites are different from Catholic rites?

Money or donations I can understand...they need it for their daily operations and maitenance of Church, etc. Sadly land is the source of livelihood for a lot of people back then you know. A great majority of the Catholics in the Philippines don't even have a small lot to call home during those times because of this piety thing. My point is, the clergy should at least redistributed the land to those who need it or help absolve some of the fellows from their sins.

But seriously...thank you for some clarification. You seem very knowledgeable about Catholicism. To be honest I still have serious doubts and questions about the Peter-Paul-James relationship during the era of the early Church. New information is certainly welcome to me. Keep 'em coming! I hope I am not being pesky or too diffiult for you.

On a personal note, I have outstanding relationship with Catholics (whom I secretly believe to be Muslims by heart - no offence to you) despite some doctrinal differnces. One of my bestfriend is a Catholic after all.

Peace to you and your kin....

Jean D'Arc was martyred at the hands of false Catholics -- remember that in the Catholic Church, if one even internally professes something contrary to the Church's teaching then one is considered a heretic and immediately excommunicated, and thus, not Catholic, ergo not Christian. Also, Protestants have a long history of disagreeing with Catholics -- which often led to religious war.

Again with the Jewish groups at the time of Jesus -- which one was correct? It was the Pharisees actually. The Saducees supported the assimilation of Gentile culture (at the time, mainly Greek and Roman) with that of the Jewish (which was at the time, the true religion) - that is a mix of pagan lies and the truth revealed by the Law and Prophets. The Pharisees on the other hand, opposed this vigorously and taught an ultra-orthodox adherence to the Law of Moses.




I'll try to do some research and reply to this later.




To answer the first question, yes and no. They recognize the pope as the Patriarch of the West (a title which was recently dropped). Patriarchs in Orthodoxy are all equal, whereas in Catholicism, the Pope is the Supreme Pontiff (Patriarch) and has primacy over all the other patriarchs. They've always recognized the Pope's authority as a patriarch, but there has always been considerable tension when it comes to Papal Primacy. I hope for the re-unification of East and West.

To answer your second question, let's take a step back 2000 years. Now I know that Muslims believe that Jesus was the precursor of Mohammed and that he never intended to found Christianity, but for sake of answering your question:
After Jesus founded the Catholic Church on Peter, tradition says that Peter went to the West and his brother Andrew went to the East. Peter would become the founder of Western (Roman) Christianity and Andrew of Eastern (Orthodox) Christianity. The churches spoken of by the Holy Apostle Paul were the Catholics in Greece -- Byzantine Catholics. Slowly, the two rites developed, Roman Catholicism and Greek Catholicism. The Romans used Latin as their language for worship (like Muslims use Arabic) and the Eastern's used Greek, Arabic, and Aramaic. After the Great Schism (which was political more than religious), Christianity was split in two - Roman and Greek, before, they were one, but now they are two. Eventually, the Greeks spread across the East (aka Russia, Ukraine, etc) and each newly converted nation adopted its own rite. The Romans spread across the West.

Theologically, dogmatically, traditionally, and doctrinally, the East and the West are very similar. Roman Catholicism tends to be more "legalistic" though, and the East tends to have a much more mystical view of everything. The main differences are in the liturgy - called the Holy Mass in the Roman Catholic Church and the Divine Liturgy in the Eastern churches. In the Roman Catholic Church, up until the Second Vatican Council - which was the worst thing that has ever happened to the Church - the Holy Mass was prayed in Latin with a few phrases in Greek every now and then. In the Eastern churches, the Divine Liturgy is chanted in the vernacular - with parts in the traditional language of that particular rite (for example, a Byzantine Catholic church in America would have their Divine Liturgy in English, Greek, and Old Slavonic; a Melkite church in America would have theirs in English and Arabic, etc).

Here is the text of the Holy Mass:
http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/M...ssal/index.html

and the Divine Liturgy:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/liturgy/liturgy.html



Agreed.

Now, let's address this:

Essentially, in the Early Church you have Peter and Paul as the two main leaders. In the early days, many of the converts to Catholicism were former Jews who saw converting to Christianity as embracing the fullness of their Jewish religion. They lived their entire lives as devout Jews, observing the Mosaic Law -- so the issue was, do Gentile converts need to first become Jews (aka circumcision, obeying dietary laws, etc) and then Catholics, or is converting to Catholicism (without going Jewish first) acceptable. Peter and his followers said that Gentiles need to convert to Judaism first, since, being devout Jews, they saw not being circumcised or eating unclean animals as pagan. Paul said the opposite. According to tradition, God corrected Peter in a vision in which he told Peter to "Kill and eat" (I suppose an unclean animal or something like that). In addition, the First Council of Jerusalem publicly declared that Gentiles need not convert to Judaism before becoming Catholic, but that they should abstain from "blood and things strangled" in order to not scandalize the Jewish Christians. As time went on, this problem eventually died out along with the first few generations of Jewish Catholics.

Major point at which the catholic belief is different from the Bible

The Catholic Catechism For Adults on page 52 says, "Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No, because certain things in the Bible can be misunderstood, and because the Bible does not have everything God taught."

2 Tim 3:15-17 says, "And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by faith which is Christ Jesus. All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, that the man of God may be erfect, furnished to every good work."
Also read Romans 1:16 and James 1:21

John 20:30 says "Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book."
But read to the next verse
"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name." The apostle clearly shows that he wrote sufficient things to produce the faith which brings life in the name of Jesus.

The Catholic Church makes itself infallible
Based on the Baltimore Catechism "Does everyone have to obey the Catholic Church? Yes, because she alon has the authority of Jesus to rule and to teach."

The Bible has many verses against this teaching.
The authority is not in the body, but in th eHead (Eph 1:22-23; Col 1:18)
The ruling is not in the kingdom, but in th eKing (Heb 7:1-2; Rev 1:5-6)
Authority is in Christ (Matt 28:18; 1 Peter 3:22)
Church is not savior, but body of the saved (Acts 2:47; Eph 5:22-24)

The Catholic Church calls the Pope "Holy Father" "Vicar of Christ", and "Sovereign Pontiff"

2 Thess 2:3-4 says "Let no one decieve you in any way, for the day of the Lord will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and is EXALTED above all that is called God, or that is WORSHIPED, so that he sits in the temple of God and gives himself out as if he were God. "
The Catholics today speak of the Pope as vicar, taking the place of God (Christ Himself is God, Matt. 1:23; John 1:1), yet there is only one passage in the entire Bible which speaks of a man doing such and it calls him "the man of sin."

James Cardinal Gibbons, a Catholic Archbishop said, "Jesus our Lord, founded but one Church, which He was pleased to build on Peter. Therefore, any church that does not recognize Peter as its foundation stone is not the Church of Christ, and therefore cannot stand, for it is not the work of God." (The Faith of Our Fathers, p. 82). The apostle Paul said, "For other foundation no one can lay, but that which has
been laid, which is Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 3:11). There is no other foundation but Christ! Therefore, any church which does not recognize Christ alone as the foundation stone cannot be the church of Christ.

They say they follow Christ, don't act like it. It's just like terrorists say they are following the koran, when every muslim I know condems the acts.

Cathoicism is a Christian denomination, just like Methodists and Baptists and a whole bunch of other religions.Basically, when the Roman empire split into the Eastern and the Western Empire, and later into the Feudal states and the Bizyntine Empire, the Church split into the Western Church-Roman Catholic and the Eastern or Orthodox Church. The Eastern/Bizntine church eventually evolved into denominations such as the Russian Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox.The Roman Catholic or Western Church had many denominations break off of it as well, who were made of people who didn't agree with some part of the Chruch's teachings, ie. the Protestants and Lutherans and other Christian denominations. Some of these divisions also divided within themselves ie Southern Baptists. However, all of these faiths are Christian faiths, including Catholics. The differences between them range from tiny to quite large. For instance, Catholics believe in the infallibility of the Pope and ask cannonized Saints to pray for us and also in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist during Mass, while other denominations might not. Their ways of Worship might also vary going to a Protestant Service is different from a Methodist one, which is different from the Catholic Mass and so on, but the God that they are worshipping is the same Christian God.

Interesting.

Jesus Christ and the Apostles were not "Jews". They were members of the Israelite religion not the bogus, Satanic, counterfeit pharisaical Judaism. They were of the true race of Israel, not the counterfeit "Israel" today. Any Christian that says "Jesus was a Jew" utters a moronic statement that perpetuates ignorance and acceptance of Judaism.

Hello,

I'm Catholic and I've never heard the pope discribed as Christ Jesus, my church would laugh if they heard that said lol. I have heard that the Catholic version of the Bible has six extra verses, and another difference is that only males can become Preists and are expected to be unmarried and remain thus. That is because a Preist is the Earthly reprisentive of Christ Jesus and that he should echo Christ Jesus' life as we know/understand it as completely as possible. Though any Priest who converts after marriage is often welcomed.
Alot of my friends assume that Catholics are 'pruds', old fashioned and 'out-of-touch' with the modern world. And ofcourse alot of our Preists have done scanderlous things which has had knock on effects of the rest of us and our priests.
There are different churches and different ways of following Catholisism and some Catholics can seem rather unreasonable or unreachable on various topics. But most of us follow the Lords teachings of 'lead by example' as appose to 'forcing' conversion.

I hope that has helped, if not just ask anything else you might need/want to know

GB Assalamu alaikum (Peace be upon you)

Crystal Xx

Good Afternoon,

This is a very difficult subject for me because I am an ex Catholic and many people who I love are still Catholic. I do not want to hurt anyones feelings. Not Muslims, Catholics or people of no faith. I say all of this with compassion in my heart and tears in my eyes:

I find the Catholic churches Catechism 841 very disturbing, it says, 'The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."'

I shall put a link in for anyone who wants to explore this:

Catholic Catechism

Sounds wonderful doesn't it? If you are not a follower of Christ or have no faith at all or are a Muslim this could be wonderful news! Is it good news for muslims? I honestly don't know!

Link to Pope Benedict prays with muslims in a mosque facing Mecca


I believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and I know Muslims find this utterly unacceptable. Fair enough, thats their right. But as a Christian it is the very heart of my faith. If Jesus says he is God, if he accepts the title from others and shows by his actions in the bible that he is who he says he is, then for me as a Christian he is God.

But for a worldwide Christian organisation to say this is shocking! Are they saying you do not need to believe in the death and reserection of Christ? Thats what muslims say too! Christ did not die according to the Quran! So Catholics accept they are worshiping the same God as Islam. Muslims think that too. Do you know what is written inside the mosque on the dome on the Rock? The one built on top of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem? The pretty blue building with the golden dome?

It says "O you People of the Book, overstep not bounds in your religion, and of God speak only the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, is only an apostle of God, and his Word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from him. Believe therefore in God and his apostles, and say not Three. It will be better for you. God is only one God. Far be it from his glory that he should have a son."

The Catholic church accepts this? Wow!

Link to: Catholic Answers: Did the Pope pray towards Mecca?


I believe the only part of the bible I cannot trust is the apocrapha. It is the part which catholics put in and other churches reject. Simply because it introduces purgatory. The medieval catholic church offered salvation from eternal damnation in return for money! This is unbiblical and Jesus thought very little of those who tried to make Gods house into a market:

In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!" (John 2:12-16)

Roman Catholic idea of Pugatory

History of Catholic indulgences and abuses

Catholic teaching on contraception

Divorce and Annulments in Catholisim

Prayers for the dead are not what Jesus preached.

Prayers to Mary are not what Jesus preached in fact it says in Luke 11:27-28

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Catholics beleive Mary was a virgin for all of her life when it clearly says in John 2:12:

'After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples.'

The statues are beautiful but I think they are idols nevertheless.

I think the pope is just a man just as I think the Archbishop of Canterbury is just a man.
In fact all bishops, vicars, priests and pastors are just men to me!

wikipedia the infallibility of the pope to catholics

I feel that Intersession by saints is pointless because we can all pray/talk directly to God with no set prayers. This happened when the curtain in the temple ripped as christ died. At that momment we all gained direct access to God!! Thats why christians can happily walk around the dome on the rock and jewish people are forbidden by the torah! Lest they might tread on the holy of holys which as christians we have complete access to because Christs death allowed us into Gods presence! Quick bible reference..

Mark 15-38 The curtain of the temple

The catholic church believes Mary was a virgin all of her life and did not die and was taken up into heaven.

I hope this helps in your understanding.

May God bless you,

Nicky