these hadith taken from famous shia book of hadith al-kafi, this is authentic hadith, my question is that did shia beliefs that imam is free from all shariya rules, they do not follow quran and hadith, in one of hadith it shows that one imam (so called) eat dates which was piosioned by some even person eating aware of that, what does that mean if a person who eat poision after awairance what islam's verdit about their act did he did right did we count them shaheed or call them he attempt suiside.

source: http://ia311317.us.archive.org/2/items/ ... l-Kafi.pdf
Chapter 47 (part 2) al-kafi


The Imams (a.s.) know when they will die and they die voluntarily

H 670, Ch. 47, h 1
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Salamah ibn-al-Khattab from ) Sulayman ibn Sama‘a and ‘Abdallah ibn Muhammad from ‘Abdallah ibn al-Qasim al-Batal from abu Basir from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "Whoever of the Imams that would not know what would happen to him and to what events he would proceed such a person is not a possessor of Divine authority over His creature."

H 671, Ch. 47, h 2
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa ibn al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Bashshar has said that a respectable man from Qati‘a al- Rabi‘ (a quarter in the Karkh part of Baghdad) from the general public (non-Shi‘a) of Baghdad, from whom people would narrate hadith has said to me the following. "I have seen (experienced) from the people of this family
of whose virtues people speak, things that I have never seen (experienced) no one else to be like him in his virtue and worship." The narrator has said that he asked the man. "Who is he? And how did you find him?" He then said, "In the days of al-Sindi ibn Shahik (a vazir of Harun al-Rashid) we gathered eighty people of the leading personalities in goodness to meet Musa ibn Ja‘far (a.s.) . Al-Sindi asked us, "Gentlemen, please examine this man. Has anything happened to him?" People think that he is tortured and they make a huge noise about it. This is his dwelling place and his bed which, has enough room and he is not constrained. Amir al-Mu’minin (Harun al-Rashid) has not done any bad things to him. He is kept here until the right time comes so he can debate Amir al-Mu’minin (Harun al-Rashid). He is quite well and comfortable from all aspects. You may ask him questions." The narrator has said, "We had no other intention but to see to the man, to his virtue and his excellent attitude. Musa ibn Ja‘far (a.s.) then said, "Whatever he (al-Sindi) has said about the capacity of the place and other such things are as he has said. However, O people, I let you know that I am being poisoned with seven pieces of dates. Tomorrow my color will turn green and after tomorrow I
will die." The man has said, "I looked at al-Sindi ibn Shahik. He shivered in terror and shook like the leaves of a branch of palm tree."

H 672, Ch. 47, h 3
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Faddal from abu Jamilah from ‘Abdallah ibn abu Ja‘far who has said that my brother narrated from Ja‘far (abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) from his father that he went to Ali ibn al-Husayn (a.s.) on the night in which he passed away and offered him a drink requesting, "Father, please drink it." He said, "Son, this is the night in which I will pass away and during such night the Messenger of Allah also passed away." (The date of the demise of the two holy ones, as generally held, is not the same. However, being the same day is a possibility).

H 673, Ch. 47, h 4
Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Hamid from al-Hassan ibn al-Jahm who has said that he said to al-Rida (a.s.) the following. "Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) knew his assassin, the night in of being murdered and the spot whereat who be murdered. It is his words on hearing the ducks at the house, "These are the quacks that will be followed by lamentations." Also the words of ’Umm Kulthum (his daughter). "Would
that you pray inside the house and send someone else to lead the prayer in the Mosque." He refused to do so and at that night he went many times out of the house unarmed. He knew that ibn Muljim, may he be condemned will murder him with a sword. He must not have exposed himself to it" The Imam (a.s.) said, "It is true but it was chosen that night wherein the measure and the determination of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High would come to pass."

H 674, Ch. 47, h 5
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from some of our people from abu al-Hassan Musa (a.s.) who has said the following. "Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High expressed anger at the Shi‘a. He, therefore, let me choose either myself or them (to receive protection). I swear by Allah, that I protected them with my own soul."
H 675, Ch. 47, h 6
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from l-Washsha’ from Musafir that abu al-Hassan al-Rida (a.s.) said to him the following. "O Musafir, in this water passage there is fish." The narrator has said that he said, "Yes, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, there is fish there." The Imam (a.s.) then said, "I saw the Messenger of
Allah last night and was saying, "O Ali, what is with us is better for you." (The mention of fish is to show equality of degree of certain in his knowledge from observation and his knowledge from his dream.)

H 676, Ch. 47, h 7
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from l-Washsha’ from Ahmad ibn ‘Aidh from abu Khadija from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "I was in the presence of my father during the day in which he passes away. He made several recommendations to me about his funeral matters, such as washing his whole body, shrouding him and placing him in his grave. I then said to him, "Father, I have not seen in a better health from the day you complained illness than today. I do not see in you any sign of death." The Imam (a.s.) said, "Son, have you not heard about Ali ibn al-Husayn (a.s.) calling from behind the wall, ‘O Muhammad, come. Be quick.’"

H 677, Ch. 47, h 8
A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Sayf ibn ‘Umayra from ‘Abd al-Malik ibn A‘yan from abu Ja‘far (a.s.) who has said the following. "Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, sent support for Imam al-Husayn (a.s.) up to the fill between the heavens and earth. Then he was let to choose either victory or meeting Allah. He, however, chose the meeting of Allah the Most High."

That is correct - the imams have knowledge of the unseen.

There is a huge difference between committing suicide and knowing when you are going to die.

Committing suicide is taking your own life - not being poisoned by someone and knowing about it.

If the imams poisoned the dates and then ate them - i would be inclined to agree with you that this is clearly suicide.

If you study the reasons people commit suicide and the reasons that the imams ate the dates, then you would have to conclude that whatever you make of the behaviour of the imams, it is not suicide.

Suicide is committed by a person when they have lost all hope and have become so disillusioned with their circumstances in this life that they decide to end it all out of cowardice.

To accuse the ancestors of the prophet who were the carriers of his knowledge of this fate is hugely disrespectful and disappointing - better it would be for you to argue against them knowing of when they are going to die than arguing that they committed suicide.

The reason that they allowed themselves to be poisoned was because that was the will of Allah that they should die that way and because of their high position - they were told of their death in advance by Allah not so that they could avoid it but because Allah knew that they would not try to avoid it.

If you look at hadith e saheeh - Prophet Muhammad told Ammar - O Ammar - after i die you will be killed by a block of transgressors. You will call them towards Jannah and they will call you towards the hell fire.'

Does this now mean that when Ammar fought against the block of transgressors led by Mu'awiya - the father of Yazid - that Ammar committed suicide because he did something that he knew would lead to his death?

I am sure you will not say this because it is part of the sunni creed to accept all sahabas as virtually infallible and to accuse one of comitting suicide is unthinkable. Or do you reject this hadith? if you want references to it - i will provide them. just ask.

The final point to be made is that the imams yearned for death because they knew of the rewards they would receive whereas the coward yearns for death out of fear and lost hope of what this world has to offer.

rediculas answer, do you mean that it is halal to eat poisioned date for a so called imam. (imam does not care rules of shariya).

what you said
There is a huge difference between committing suicide and knowing when you are going to die.

(but you have to fight for sake of your life this is necessary in islam and no one is out of shriya rulles even prophets as)

Committing suicide is taking your own life - not being poisoned by someone and knowing about it.

eating of poisioned dates are also taking your own life if some of aware of such fact, they have to refussed to eat such poisioned date and shold struggle against person who poisioned such dates.

If the imams poisoned the dates and then ate them - i would be inclined to agree with you that this is clearly suicide.

who ever piosioned dates, if some one aware that dates are piosioned they should not eat such piosioned food, as per islamic teaching they should go to fight against them.

If you study the reasons people commit suicide and the reasons that the imams ate the dates, then you would have to conclude that whatever you make of the behaviour of the imams, it is not suicide.

procedure are same, people commit suicide kill themselfs by eating piosioned or use other materials. muslims have to fight untill fatha or accept shahadat after struggle.

Suicide is committed by a person when they have lost all hope and have become so disillusioned with their circumstances in this life that they decide to end it all out of cowardice.

you mean you so called imam lost all hope that is why he did not go for fight and not struggle for sake of his life.


If you look at hadith e saheeh - Prophet Muhammad told Ammar ra - O Ammar - after i die you will be killed by a block of transgressors. You will call them towards Jannah and they will call you towards the hell fire.'

Does this now mean that when Ammar ra fought against the block of transgressors led by Mu'awiya - the father of Yazid - that Ammar ra

first of all have to check such hadith sahi or fabricated by shia althought ammar ra did struggled against them he ra fought against them and then accept shahadat clearly prove my point.