Cousin marriage is common in all Muslim countries. It is in accordance with the teaching of the Holy Quran and our Prophet had married his daughter with his uncle son. There were no defects in the children. Cousin marriage is thought to generate more stable relationship. Children are born with defects whether it is cousin marriage or not. Among migrant Muslim communities the defects are due to many factors. The pressure of moving to a different cultural environment and moving from their families, problems of racism and employment are responsible for the defects during pregnancies. The defects are nothing to do with cousin marriages. The hidden agenda is that British society does not want Muslims to bring their spouses from Muslim countries. A man/woman has the right to marry anybody from anywhere. It is a question of human right and the right given to Muslims by the Holy Quran and the sayings of the Holy Prophet.



I would like to see each and every Pakistani parent should marry their sons and daughters in Pakistan so that their offsprings could speak, read and write Urdu language and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. The racist British education system has produced only notoriously monolingual Pakistani Brits. Pakistani parents would like their children to be well versed in Standard English, Arabic and Urdu languages and to be part of the British society as well as keeping in touch with their cultural roots.

Marrying cousin is and has always been legal in the UK. It is not only migrant communities who have children with their cousins, rural communities have their fair share…truly… and lets not even look at the inbreeding within royalty and the aristocracy. How else do you think the aristocracy held onto 90% of the land for so long? Muslim community is an easy target to wag the fingure at. There is no hard evidence that married to cousin causes birth defects. Before picking on Pakistanis just remember that Queen and Prince Phillip are third cousins. Glass houses…stone…. I do not think fingers should be pointed at Pakistani culture; it is another witch hunt against Muslim community. Native English people marry their cousins as well and have done for centuries. British society is ignorant regarding UK law. Henry V111 changed the law so he could marry his cousin. And it still remains legal to marry your cousin in UK today. In Britain, every Pakistani is not a Muslim and neither do they all get married to their cousins. I am sick of British media and politicians like Baroness Ruth Deech and Keighly MP Ann Cryer bashing Muslim communities every day. The hatred towards Muslim communities has grown to a level that defies all logic and even affront to British values. The problem is that Britain has never made communities feel part of British identity and people lives “parallel lives”. Faith schools are part and parcel of British education system but Muslim schools are being discouraged and regarded as “Osama bib Laden Academies.

Iftikhar Ahmad


http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

hey I will not blame anyone for marrying cousin or judge them... it is there choice. You are so right that if someone just picks on Muslims on the issue of cousin marriage, they are clearly ignoring the fact that it is common among many different groups of people...


But please, this is entirely untrue and anybody who has told you has either completely ignored science or has never studied basic genetics!! It is clear and basic logic that marrying within bloodline DOES result in more abnormalities.


The problem is that if you are a carrier of a recessive gene for a rare illness (meaning both parents need a copy for the disease to express itself in the offspring), a family free of inbreeding may have gone generations upon generations without ever knowing the default gene is within their family, because the chances of meeting anybody else (outside of the family) with that gene and having offspring that express the disease are so slim. But once you marry within the family the chances skyrocket. Furthermore, when people blame a child abnormality on inbreeding, it is because the disease they are talking about is genetic in nature. If it's genetic in nature, there's no way environmental factors such as pressure, racism, and emplyment could play any role in the disease developing.... your argument makes no sense because you are talking about two entirely different things (genetic diseases v. diseases resulting from complications during pregnancy).

Yes there are diseases in children of non-inbred parents, and it doesn't mean that you will ALWAYS have children with abnormalities and diseases if the parents are from the same family, but it means the chances ARE higher. It's an issue of basic probability.

and cousin marriage is not only common among Muslims but all over Asia... every Hindu friends I've had in arranged marriage there is family relation. My best friend's marriage there is relation between her and her husband and she is Hindu

What point are you trying to make? If you are trying to say that the west should not just single out Muslims on the cousin-marriage issue, I don't think anybody will argue you. But don't try and claim false science because that only makes us all look ignorant We should accept the science and only after that should families make the decision of whether they want to interbreed... Allah has not commanded us to marry within our families... he has merely made it permissible. But this is a different day and age, when we know more about science and can prevent the suffering of children by lessening the chance of disease... so why would we want to marry within our families in today's day and age??? To me this is purely cultural and has no standing in religion...

Tell me... wat's the justification for cousin marriage? Why would you want to take the chance to bring a baby in the world that will end up mentally challenged or suffering from a severe disease? Wouldn't you rather you children have better chance of living normal lives? Why do people want to deny this !

I need to PUKE. Blergh...

,

yes we are criticised for having cousin marriages just to merely pick on us. There are more disabilities in non cousin marriages according to statistics. however, there is one thing I do not agree with. for example in our family we probs have about 4-5 boys we are able to marry. because of such a strong culture they say to the girl choose from one of these. how can she "choose" what if she doesnt "like" any of them. it is soo strong that girls are almost forced to marry one of their cousins. quuite a few many families and cultures dont want to give their daughters outside of marriage.
They feel that they will look at your status, your family your education and they wont have "qadr" i.e. repsect for you as much as a cousin would. in SOME cases this CAN be true but not all. There are cousin marriages in my family and it was likely to happen in the family anyway because our families feel "insecure" in giving us outside. If I had a choice, which is islam i do, i probably would have married outside but culture is again horribly strong.
My husband is a sunni and I am shia is makes life relatively difficult. he hasnt got his visa so I dont live with him at the moment. but when i go to visit him we have alot of problems. its not peaceful haveing two different sects living together. even if i didnt marry him, it would have been someone else in the family..again sunni. Another reason our families have an issue is because they say we are syed and cannot marry a non syed except in extenuating circumstances. so what if i married a syed shia outside of the family? ..why should they have an issue with this.

It isnt even close to necessary to marry a cousin, you can marry any muslim,,it ois just that cultrure plays a huuuge part and it realy really takes the mick. i hate my culture due to immense ignorance is some traditions. They dont even understand that we are british klids. born and bred in England and we have a diffderent thinking and have our own choices. my cousins are being told to marry so and so and is expected to like it!.. im like, yeh he is nice and everything but if she doesnt like him she DOESNT LIKE him .. honestly...

Im not saying I completely disagree with cousin marriages, this is also a sunnah. but Prophet saww has given a woman a choice is islam and culture shouldnt overide that choice as it does today.

.

sorry made a mistake...

rrr.... this isn't true..... not in the slightest

In Britian alone Pakistani children make up 30% of children with genetic recessive diseases, even though Pakistanis make up only 3% of the population...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7237663.stm

here's an article from a scientific journal if you don't believe me or the BBC

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v88/n6/full/6800090a.html

you guys should believe what you want, but please, do accept the realities of what inbreeding does. Where does Allah tell us we should marry our cousins?

but where does allah tel us not to marry our cousins? my sister is married to our cousin same as my brother but their kids are perfectly fine...n i knw of a couple who are not related in anyway what so ever but have a disabled child! at te end of the day its all up to Allah ..u get what ur destined

you are talking about 2 people in the history of the world....

the science tells us without a doubt, that cousin marriages lead to an increase in recessive diseases being expressed in children. Sometimes these diseases can be very severe and terrible. I am not judging anyone who gets married to their cousin and I'm not saying it's immoral, but I personally don't understand why people would take the risk. In Britian Pakistani people are 15% more likely to have children with recessive genetic diseases. It's like smoking or drinking while you are pregnant, or doing anything dangerous while you are carrying a baby. If you saw somebody smoking while pregnant, even knowing that the science shows that this can lead to birth defects, wouldn't you think that person is being a little irresponsible? What's the thought that would go through your head when you see that mother? Woud you think "it doesn't matter because Allah will give that child what he's destined."? I have known people in my life who have smoked while pregnant and their kids were absolutely fine, does that mean that the science about the potential dangers is fake?

I once knew somebody who got in a car wreck because they fell asleep at the wheel and a pole was impaled through the windshield. They lived and ironically didn't get hurt. Does that somehow show that driving while your tired isn't irresponsible? Because I've known people who have been driving completely awake and alert, following all rules and doing nothing wrong, and got in a freak accident and got injured. So this somehow proves one is not more risky than the other? No you would use common sense and say "of course driving while tired is dangerous and there's a greater chance you'll get in a wreck and get hurt." So why are cousin marriages any different? Why do people deny they lead to terrible diseases in children? It is not as though Allah commanded us to marry our cousins, so it does not go against Islam in any way to not engage in such marriages

You can't base probability on a handful of people you know of or who you've heard of

My daughter was married to her first cousin, has two grown up young children
without any defects. My eldest brother was married to his first cousin with
seven children. Four of them are medical doctors and not a single child has
any defects. Million of Muslims through out the world are married to their
first cousins. Some of them have defective children. I know a family with
three defective children. They have no relation with each other. My cousin
married a Hindu girl in canada and they have a girl with some sorts of
defects. Doctor has advised them not to have any more children. My nephew in
Pakistan was married to his first cousin. They have three highly educated children.

The ground reality is that British society does not want Muslim parents to
get marry their children back home so that their grand children could learn their mother tongues. Human being is a product of his culture,
language and faith. There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. If Muslims become notoriously monolingual Brits than there is a likely hood that they will adopt English culture. They will still be the underdogs of the British society. In the past they were victim of Paki-bashing in all walks of life by the British society becuae majority of them were not well versed in local accents. Now Muslim youths born and educated by British education system are being victim of terrorism by British establishment. Thousands of them are being searched by Police in streets and many of them are behind the bar without any trial. A lot of Muslim youths are imprisoned by British courts on the slightest excuses. The number of Muslim prisoners is on the increase in British jails. When they come out of jail they will become real criminals and terrorists while British foreign minister has said that Muslims are law abiding and committed citizens.

Majority of Muslims
are from Pakistan. Their culture and language is differnt from Bengali or
Gujrati or Turkish and Arabs. They have only faith in common. They only marry
among their own communities because
of culture and language. This is the ground reality.

In the 70s, when I raised ithe issue of bilingualism and Muslim schools, I
was given the impression that British education system does not believe in
bilingualism. According to varities of studies, a child will suffer if
he/she finds himself cut off from his/her cultural and linguistic roots.
Arabic is our religious language and each and every Muslim must be well
versd in Quranic Arabic. Urdu is our social and emotional language and majority of Muslims from the sub-continet must learn and be well versed in Urdu to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. This the main reason why I believe that Pakistani
parents must find marriage partners from Pakistan for their children.
Pakistani children and youths suffer more than others because they find
themselves cut off from the literature and poetry. Majority of them are not
even well versed in Standard English. This is the main rason why majority of
Pakistani children leave schools without goood qualification. English is
their economic language while Urdu is their social and emotional and Arabic
is their religious language.

I am concerned with the education of bilingual Muslim children. I set up the
first Muslim school in London in 1981 and now there are round about 140
Muslim schools and only 11 are state funded. I would like to see each and
every Muslim child to be in a Muslim school.

A study by Bristol University reveals that a high level of racial
segregation in Oldham schools and tension between communities resulted in
recent riots in 2001. The solution is that those schools where Muslim
children are majority, may be designated as Muslim community schools. The
native parents do not want their children to be educated along with migrant
chiildren. As soon as they find that the number of other children are on the
increase, they move their children to those schools where native children
are in majority.

There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority.
In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community
schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. There is no place for
a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Please visit www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk for more information on
this complicated and complicated issue.

You can list off 100 children born to cousin marriages that don't have defects and 100 born to non-related parents that do, and it won't change the science of the statistics. Whether your kids or friends or any of these kids are doctors is not relevant. 100 people is not enough to to look at any genetic trends in populations. You need thousands, if not hundreds of thousands at the least to say anything conclusive. More than that, this is basic science. This is basic genetics. There are strong likelihoods we all have some sort of recessive genetic disorders. Thanks to genetic diversity in the world, chances are those diseases are never manifested. When marrying within a family, that safety is not there and the liklihood is that recessive genetic disorders can be expressed.



Look, it may very well be the case that British don't want Muslim culture to continue. In fact, i think it's quite obvious as British is very Islamophobic. I am happy I don't live in Britian for that reason! Even though I KNOW the risks of cousin marriage, I would not chose to ban it because this would infringe on peoples rights. If cousin marriages are banned, then smoking while pregnant or doing any rigorous activity while pregnant should also be banned. These are personal decisions the governemnt shoudl not chose

But why does all of this keep you from accepting the undisputable scientific evidence that show genetic diseases in cousin marriages? It is not that this is only being taught in Britian. Any basic research on genetics will lead you to the same conclusion, regardless of where you obtain that research from.




So be it. Marry your cousins if you are Pakistani. I am not going to judge anyone who does that. I don't think the government should stop it. But you should not deny scientific fact to justify such unions. There is no reason to live in denial of anything! If you know the risks and are knowing that, it is still important to marry within your family, that is by all means your right. But don't spread misinformation about the topic. This is not propaganda spread by the British government, this fact is taught all over the world because it is undisputed.



This is irrelevant to the subject of whether or not cousin marriages cause genetic defects in children. I understand your problems with Muslim children recieving non-religious or British education. But that is a separate issue. Muslims should have the right to marry within their families. They should have the right in Britian to do everything that all non-Muslims do. But don't deny facts. What I'm saying is that, denying the scientific evidence doesen't do anything but hurt your case. If you admit the scientific evidence and say "ok we accept this and we still want to do this, give us the right to do this," people can not claim you are being ignorant to the issue.


Listen... I am not trying to cause you any offense. I am not trying to prove to you that cousin marriage is wrong. All of the things which you are fighting for (Islamic educaation for western raised Muslim children, etc), if you feel strongly about them you should keep fighting for it because its your right. All I'm saying is that, citing bad science or ignoring facts will only hurt your case. The phenomenon of inbreeding leading to genetic diseases is undisputed fact, it is not a theory which is being explored and there is nothing to disprove it. You will see if you learn genetics that it is very obvious and logical as well. Read for yourself the material and you will see. It doesn't mean you are going against islam or even cousin marriages, it simply means to accept all sides to the story. I can promise these are not "statistics" that the Britisih government has made up to make Muslims look bad. If you debate them by saying : "science is not credible" it only makes your side of the debate weak and it makes you lose credibilty! You might have the most convincing argument in the world for marrying kids back home or educating them in religious schools, but if you tell me that 2+2=5, I'll stop listening at that point and it will discredit everything else you've said. Do you see what I'm saying? And understand that you have to get your sources from legitimate places. Check out a text book, read scientific journal articles. You can not find somebodies home made website that claims that cousin marriages don't lead to more genetic diseases and just use that as evidence because its completely unreliable. The scores of research however, verifiable and reproduce able research, will tell a different and more legitimate story!

You guys need to relax

a) Marrying your cousin is allowed in Islam
b ) Doesn't mean you HAVE to. Just like men can marry four women, you don't have to.
c ) It's scientifically proven that having a child with your cousin increases the chances of a genetic disorder, does not mean it can happen.
d) If you have a child with your cousin without a genetic disorder, doesn't disprove that it can happen. You shoot someone with a gun, they don't die, doesn't mean guns aren't dangerous or lethal. Sometimes you shoot, you miss, that's life.
e) However, point c does not make cousin marriages ISLAMICALLY immoral (which is the most important) just culturally, depending on which culture you live in.

If someone doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean they're wrong, they just don't agree with it because that's how they grew up. But if it's a muslim saying it's haram or something, then it's wrong to do so for them. Also, a muslim to show disgust regarding this can be wrong, we all grew up from different families and cultures, therefore we have different views.

A family with a long line of genetic disorders and illnesses, which through interfamily marriages can increase the risk of, it would be common sense NOT to marry in the family. However, sometimes immigrant parents in the western world refuse to give up their culture, which can overpower your wishes. It happens.

Nicely said Azam.

I'm sorry Azamnoor but I won't relax. I apologize if I came off harsh but understand I never said cousin-marriage was morally wrong or haram.... I said over and over it's a person's right and it's clearly allowed in Islam and it's wrong for any government to restrict that right... although I wouldn't participate in such unions, I wouldn't judge anyone who chooses to as there is nothing Islamically wrong with it.

but I do take issue when people in our community deny scientific fact to somehow justify things in the religion. If Islam tells us something is haram or halal or there is a hadith that people have problem with in the non-Muslim community, some people feel this big need to conjur up and spread bad or twisted science that supports said hadith or ayah so Muslims will feel more at peace or justified about them. I see this over and over and over again and it's a huge problem because it makes our community as a whole look ignorant and like we are denying facts.

If Allah has permitted us or restricted something and science shows that that might be harmful or beneficial, we don't need to deny the science we need to say "Allah knows best". It's like this debate over hijab and Muslim women not getting enough Vitamin C from the sun. Should we deny this fact to justify hijab to others or should we say : "there is no need to justify Allah, I trust him and I trust Islam even if it seems odd to you" and accept that scientific fact and move on and ignore the critisism from the non-Islamic community?

I'm sorry but I think it devalues the concept of faith and makes us all look bad when people do this.

It was directed more towards iftikhar but I get your point. Like the hijab and vitamin c (I thought it was Vit. E). Although you may be losing one thing from wearing it, the benefits are much greater

As for cousin marriages, it is neither encouraged nor discouraged, it's simply allowed. If now we know through scientific evidence that it can cause genetic problems in children, then avoid it if possible. The prophet did it to show that it's allowed, however in his family, it wasn't as insane as some brown families. "So my grandpa married his cousin, his dad married his cousin, his dad married his cousin, his dad married his cousin" etc

Speaking of criticism from the non-muslim community, regarding this, we shouldn't be bothered. Again, we shouldn't be bothered with any ruling that doesn't suit non-muslims, but this isn't an obligation nor an encouraged act, it's just is to help muslims from other cultures fit into Islam. Eventually, the more religious families will wed for the reason of piety in place of relations.

The main problem that people who do practice this have is that their culture emphasizes (like mine) inter-family marriages so much that when people give the slightest hint that they don't like it, they go berserk. So the emotion towards it needs to be corrected. I've learned to deal with it this way. Kids in my school make jokes about cousin marriages so much, but I don't care because it's a cultural thing and not an obligation. On one hand it can be considered one of the sunnahs but then again, the prophet (s.a.w) did with one reason being to show that it's alright.

i think its vitamin D actually...produced when the skin is exposed to sunlight...which obviously happens much less when a woman wears hijab.

lol sorry you guys I'm sure I'm wrong about Vitamin C!!!

gah! Too many letters >.<

You guys need to relax sleep.gif

a) Marrying your cousin is allowed in Islam
b ) Doesn't mean you HAVE to. Just like men can marry four women, you don't have to.
c ) It's scientifically proven that having a child with your cousin increases the chances of a genetic disorder, does not mean it can happen.
d) If you have a child with your cousin without a genetic disorder, doesn't disprove that it can happen. You shoot someone with a gun, they don't die, doesn't mean guns aren't dangerous or lethal. Sometimes you shoot, you miss, that's life.
e) However, point c does not make cousin marriages ISLAMICALLY immoral (which is the most important) just culturally, depending on which culture you live in.

If someone doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean they're wrong, they just don't agree with it because that's how they grew up. But if it's a muslim saying it's haram or something, then it's wrong to do so for them. Also, a muslim to show disgust regarding this can be wrong, we all grew up from different families and cultures, therefore we have different views.

A family with a long line of genetic disorders and illnesses, which through interfamily marriages can increase the risk of, it would be common sense NOT to marry in the family. However, sometimes immigrant parents in the western world refuse to give up their culture, which can overpower your wishes. It happens.



Thats perfect!.. it should have ended .....its everyones choice..not disallowed or compulsory.. statistics arent always 100% but some cannot be denied either.

that is all. there no argument left now.

Are we only talking about first cousins or second and third cousins also?

Ew, ew i agree that its not just the Pakistani community because when there is noone for your daughter to marry and you are economically down you will need to marry asap and if cousins are permissible then they would do so.

But if there are people to marry then it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Growing up in the West makes you think different, me and my cousin grew up together and i only played games with him cuz he was the only one near to my age and hes like a brother to me an incredibly annoying one but still.


Gross. But i've seen worse for example in some Hindu families/ Indian you will find that niece's marry their uncles. Where is the puke emo?